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Old 07-16-2014, 06:49 PM   #101
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Interesting world view... being more powerful automagically makes you more wrong?

You just demonized an Israeli leader for stating the obvious. There's a whole segment of Palestinian society clearly responsible for aiding, abetting, and encouraging terrorism against helpless civilians and genocide.

Ms. Farhat was a snake. Is it wrong to say so?
I think it helps to remember what has happened to the people who lived in Palestine. As the maps above point out, the rest of the world took a population from postwar Europe and simply dropped them into this land where they then drove the people who had lived there for hundreds of years off their land and out of their homes, and into refugee camps, in their own land, where they have lived for decades. And everybody is surprised the Palestinians are vehemently and violently opposed to this? Really? People also forget the acts of terrorism the Jews carried out against the British, which seems to me a likely source of inspiration for the Palestinians. Read up on the Irgun if you think the Palestinians are such evil terrorists.

The other thing I've never understood, is how the U.S. becomes the number one supporter for an idea which is totally antithetical to their own ideals. How is a Jewish state any different than what ISIS is trying to do in Iraq by creating a caliphate? Could you imagine what would happen if the Mormons suddenly declared Utah a Mormon state? Maybe Texas could declare itself a Christian state. Fortunately, there are people in the Jewish and Palestinian communities who do want to work toward resolution and end this craziness, but how they'll get past the radicals in Likud and Hamas is the question.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:08 PM   #102
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Palestinians have a right to fight if that's what they want to do. I can see the reasoning behind it. The Indians had a good reason to fight also but we aren't giving them their land back are we?

It's too bad that the Arab countries attacked after the partition. Maybe it could have worked out better for the Palestinians.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:36 AM   #103
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I think you should read it again. Make a list of the features of the Ghetto and I think you'll find that more of them apply to Gaza than do not. It would also be naive to pretend that there are not voices in Israel calling for out and out extermination of the Palestinian "snakes" is how I believe they are putting it.
So what? There are politicians and leaders in every country in this planet calling for the extermination or some other country or culture. And no, neither Gaza or the West Bank are still close to the Warsaw Ghetto. Until the Israeli army just up and walks in saying "Welp, it's Tuesday, how about we go execute 50 thousand unarmed Palestinians before dinner?" then they will not be.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:08 AM   #104
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So what? There are politicians and leaders in every country in this planet calling for the extermination or some other country or culture. And no, neither Gaza or the West Bank are still close to the Warsaw Ghetto. Until the Israeli army just up and walks in saying "Welp, it's Tuesday, how about we go execute 50 thousand unarmed Palestinians before dinner?" then they will not be.
It seems to be the question of our times, both at home and abroad: How do you stop extremists from dominating the agenda?
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:32 AM   #105
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Palestinians have a right to fight if that's what they want to do. I can see the reasoning behind it. The Indians had a good reason to fight also but we aren't giving them their land back are we?

It's too bad that the Arab countries attacked after the partition. Maybe it could have worked out better for the Palestinians.
You are mis-stating what actually happened. I'll summarize it for you.

1. Zionists began ethnically cleansing Palestinian villages in Oct-Nov 1947

2. Six months later. Several Arab nations moved in troops in April-May 1948 to try and stop the Zionists from driving out the Palestinians. Most of the Arab armies were deployed in what is now the West Bank, on land that was allotted to the Palestinian under the UN Partition Plan.

This intervention is what the Zionist press refers to as the Arab attack on Israel.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:05 PM   #106
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You are mis-stating what actually happened. I'll summarize it for you.

1. Zionists began ethnically cleansing Palestinian villages in Oct-Nov 1947

2. Six months later. Several Arab nations moved in troops in April-May 1948 to try and stop the Zionists from driving out the Palestinians. Most of the Arab armies were deployed in what is now the West Bank, on land that was allotted to the Palestinian under the UN Partition Plan.

This intervention is what the Zionist press refers to as the Arab attack on Israel.
Cute history. How come it starts in '47? You know because there was a whole big fight against International Jewery right before that. Both in Palestine and obviously a little ways across the Mediterranean.

Some Palestinians and your boy Adolf were pretty tight. Why isn't that in your nutshell version?
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:48 PM   #107
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Cute history. How come it starts in '47?
Because the British ruled from 1917-1947. Before that it was the Ottomans. Before that it was somebody else besides the Jews unless you go all the way back to periods before Christ.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:53 PM   #108
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Actually, they were relatively brief periods a long time ago.

Blue = Jewish rule

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Old 07-17-2014, 01:56 PM   #109
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Because the British ruled from 1917-1947. Before that it was the Ottomans. Before that it was somebody else besides the Jews unless you go all the way back to periods before Christ.
I know. We've been over it before. It's just cute how "Crimea is for Russians" Gaff tries to pretend like "Palestinians" alone have some sort of birthright claim to Israeli territory even though it's pretty much impossible to point to a time in the last millennia or two where they actually controlled it.

Brits owned it. Turks owned it. Romans owned it. Greeks owned it. Israelites owned it. When exactly did "Palestinians" own it? What makes their claim any more valid than the partition plan agreed to by the British Empire who controlled it, in conference with the UN?
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:04 PM   #110
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Actually, they were relatively brief periods a long time ago.

Blue = Jewish rule

The Jews say that God intended that land for His Chosen People, but judging by that timeline, He might have pulled one over on them.

Oh, and prior to that, the Neanderthals had it for a while.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:49 PM   #111
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This is for those of you who think Israel tries to avoid killing civilians. The reality -- as I have been saying for years -- is that the Israelis intentionally target children.

Is there a word for this special kind of sadism? Help me out here. I'm at a loss. MHG


NBC News Pulls Reporter from Gaza After Witnessing Israeli Attack on Children

By Glenn Greenwald

July 17, 2014 "ICH" - "The Intercept"
- Ayman Mohyeldin, the NBC News correspondent who personally witnessed yesterday’s killing by Israel of four Palestinian boys on a Gazan beach and who has received widespread praise for his brave and innovative coverage of the conflict, has been told by NBC executives to leave Gaza immediately. According to an NBC source upset at his treatment, the executives claimed the decision was motivated by “security concerns” as Israel prepares a ground invasion, a claim repeated to me by an NBC executive. But late yesterday, NBC sent another correspondent, Richard Engel, along with an American producer who has never been to Gaza and speaks no Arabic, into Gaza to cover the ongoing Israeli assault.

Mohyeldin is an Egyptian-American with extensive experience reporting on that region. He has covered dozens of major Middle East events in the last decade for CNN, NBC and Al Jazeera English, where his reporting on the 2008 Israeli assault on Gaza made him a star of the network. NBC aggressively pursued him to leave Al Jazeera, paying him far more than the standard salary for its on-air correspondents.

Yesterday, Mohyeldin witnessed and then reported on the brutal killing by Israeli planes of four young boys as they played soccer on a beach in Gaza City. He was instrumental, both in social media and on the air, in conveying to the world the visceral horror of the attack.

Mohyeldin recounted how, moments before their death, he was kicking a soccer ball with the four boys, who were between the ages of 9 and 11 and all from the same family. He posted numerous chilling details on his Twitter and Instagram accounts, including the victims’ names and ages, photographs he took of their anguished parents, and video of one of their mothers as she learned about the death of her young son. He interviewed one of the wounded boys at the hospital shortly before being operated on. He then appeared on MSNBC’s All In with Chris Hayes, where he dramatically recounted what he saw.

for the many embedded links
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...ing-four-boys/
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:08 PM   #112
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I guess the "other side" of the story is not kosher for American audiences.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:38 PM   #113
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Believing this does not mean the blind support of Netanyahu and Israeli leaders who are more radical than him.

They want a skeleton, restricted Palestinian state on parts of the West Bank, under Israel’s thumb with little or no sovereign power—an Israeli version of apartheid. Hamas, on the other hand, invokes the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and fights for elimination of the Jewish state.

President Obama told Muslim Americans attending a White House dinner this week that “the situation in Gaza reminds us, again, that the status quo is unsustainable. The only path to true security is a just and lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians.”

But with the Netanyahu government and Hamas calling the shots, neither Obama nor anyone else knows how to get there.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...aders_20140716
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:04 PM   #114
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It appears Israeli forces just killed four kids on a beach. They were shelling the beach from the sea. Israel claims the Palestinians were using the kids to shield a rocket launcher on the beach. Witnesses claim the kids were just playing in the sand.
They weren't targeting Hamas on that part of the beach. It was an exposed jetty with no electricity. They targeted kids playing out on a jetty. They killed one boy with the first bomb. The other three boys were killed with a second bomb 30 seconds later while they were running away. They almost made it off the beach.



Through Lens, 4 Boys Dead by Gaza Shore

I had returned to my small seaside hotel around 4 p.m. to file photos to New York when I heard a loud explosion. My driver and I rushed to the window to see what had happened. A small shack atop a sea wall at the fishing port had been struck by an Israeli bomb or missile and was burning. A young boy emerged from the smoke, running toward the adjacent beach.

I grabbed my cameras and was putting on body armor and a helmet when, about 30 seconds after the first blast, there was another. The boy I had seen running was now dead, lying motionless in the sand, along with three other boys who had been playing there.

By the time I reached the beach, I was winded from running with my heavy armor. I paused; it was too risky to go onto the exposed sand. Imagine what my silhouette, captured by an Israeli drone, might look like as a grainy image on a laptop somewhere in Israel: wearing body armor and a helmet, carrying cameras that could be mistaken for weapons. If children are being killed, what is there to protect me, or anyone else?

I watched as a group of people ran to the children’s aid. I joined them, running with the feeling that I would find safety in numbers, though I understood that feeling could be deceptive: Crowds can make things worse. We arrived at the scene to find lifeless, mangled bodies. The boys were beyond help. They had been killed instantly, and the people who had rushed to them were shocked and distraught.

Earlier in the day, I had photographed the funeral for a man and a 12-year-old boy. They had been killed when a bomb hit the car in which they were riding south of Gaza City, severely injuring an older woman with them.

There is no safe place in Gaza right now. Bombs can land at any time, anywhere.

A small metal shack with no electricity or running water on a jetty in the blazing seaside sun does not seem like the kind of place frequented by Hamas militants, the Israel Defense Forces’ intended targets. Children, maybe four feet tall, dressed in summer clothes, running from an explosion, don’t fit the description of Hamas fighters, either.



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Old 07-18-2014, 07:22 AM   #115
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Since January 2005, when the conflict began to change dramatically, it has killed 4,006 people, of whom 168 have been Israeli and 3,838 Palestinian. That means that, since January 2005, only four percent of those killed have been Israeli, and 96 percent Palestinian. Since January 2005, in other words, the conflict has killed 23 Palestinians for every one Israeli it claims.
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581...onflict-deaths
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:26 AM   #116
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:44 AM   #117
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Default Congress shamelessly supports Israeli crimes

US Senate Unanimously Passes Resolution Supporting Israeli Assault on Gaza

By Chris Carlson

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle39150.htm
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:49 AM   #118
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Default every day a new massacre

Israeli rockets blow away more children...

The dead include three children from one family

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle39148.htm
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:56 AM   #119
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Who is Winning?

By Uri Avnery

July 18, 2014 "ICH"
-- WHAT WOULD history look like if it were written in the style of the "Solid Cliff (a.k.a. Protective Edge) operation?
For example:

Winston Churchill was a scoundrel.[*]

For five years he kept the population of London under the unceasing fire of the German Luftwaffe. He used the inhabitants of London as a human shield in his crazy war. While the civilian population was exposed to the bombs and rockets, without the protection of an "iron dome", he was hiding in his bunker under 10 Downing Street.

He exploited all the inhabitants of London as hostages. When the German leaders made a generous peace proposal, he rejected it for crazy ideological reasons. Thus he condemned his people to unimaginable suffering.

From time to time he emerged from his underground hideout to have his picture taken in front of the ruins, and then he returned to the safety of his rat hole. But to the people of London he said: "Future generations will say that this was your finest hour!"

The German Luftwaffe had no alternative but to go on bombing the city. Its commanders announced that they were hitting only military targets, such as the homes of British soldiers, where military consultations were taking place.

The German Luftwaffe called on the inhabitants of London to leave the city, and many children were indeed evacuated. But most Londoners heeded the call of Churchill to remain, thus condemning themselves to the fate of "collateral damage".

The hopes of the German high command that the destruction of their homes and the killing of their families would induce the people of London to rise up, kick out Churchill and his war-mongering gang, came to naught.

The primitive Londoners, whose hatred of the Germans overcame their logic, perversely followed the coward Churchill's instructions. Their admiration for him grew from day to day, and by the end of the war he had become almost a god.

A statue of him stands even today in front of the Parliament in Westminster.

FOUR YEARS later the wheel had turned. The British and American air forces bombed the German cities and destroyed them completely. A stone did not remain on a stone, glorious palaces were flattened, cultural treasures were obliterated. "Uninvolved civilians" were blown to smithereens, burned to death or just disappeared. Dresden, one of the most beautiful cities in Europe, was totally destroyed within a few hours in a "fire storm".

The official aim was to destroy the German war industry, but this was not achieved. The real aim was to terrorize the civilian population, in order to induce them to remove their leaders and capitulate.

That did not happen. Indeed, the only serious revolt against Hitler was carried out by senior army officers (and failed). The civilian population did not rise up. On the contrary. In one of his diatribes against the "terror pilots" Goebbels declared: "They can break our homes, but they cannot break our spirit!"

Germany did not capitulate until the very last moment. Millions of tons of bombs did not suffice. They only strengthened the morale of the population and its loyalty to the Führer.

AND SO to Gaza.

Everyone is asking: who is winning this round?

Which must be answered, the Jewish way, with another question: how to judge?

The classical definition of victory is: the side that remains on the battlefield has won the battle. But here nobody has moved. Hamas is still there. So is Israel.

Carl von Clausewitz, the Prussian war theorist, famously declared that war is but the continuation of policy by other means. But in this war, neither side had any clear political aims. So victory cannot be judged this way.

The intensive bombing of the Gaza Strip has not produced a Hamas capitulation. On the other hand, the intensive rocket campaign by Hamas, which covered most of Israel, did not succeed either. The stunning success of the rockets to reach everywhere in Israel has been met with the stunning success of the "Iron Dome" counter-rockets to intercept them.


So, until now, it is a standoff.

But when a tiny fighting force in a tiny territory achieves a standoff with one of the mightiest armies in the world, it can be considered a victory.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:13 PM   #120
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How can someone shoot women and children? Easy, you just don't lead em so much!
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:21 AM   #121
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Default toll now at 425 dead Palestinians

The slaughter continues -- with one reported massacre of 60 people.MHG


A doctor writes from Gaza - 'there are lakes of blood'

http://www.channel4.com/news/a-docto...lakes-of-blood
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:15 AM   #122
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64 public figures, 7 Nobel laureates, call for arms embargo on Israel

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.606228
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:20 PM   #123
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:32 PM   #124
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:52 AM   #125
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Default toll now at 583 dead Palestinians

Israel is blowing up apartment buildings and hospitals. Can strikes ever be targeted to minimize civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?


“Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”
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