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Old 07-14-2014, 01:30 PM   #51
mhgaffney
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The Palestinians will remain without the state they say they desire as long as their desire to destroy Israel outweighs their desire for a state. They've had several chances since the 40s.

Secondly, Israel is using the "roof-knocking" technique. Calling Palestinians on their cell-phones to warn them of an impending attack and dropping leaflets to tell them to "get the **** out of dodge, were attacking tomorrow" is a pretty bad way of "massacring people".

Using precision guided munitions, and vacuum bombs that such shrapnel and superheated gases inwards, so that the explosions are relatively contained are also strange ways of "massacring" people.

The FACTS are that Israel is using novel technology and techniques in order to minimize Palestinian casualties... Of course, if people STAY in buildings after the "roof-knocking" or swarm inside them after they receive a warning call, people will die. Hamas knows this and they place kids and women on the roofs as shields. But whose fault is that?
Notice the map at far right - which depicts the "great offer" made to Arafat during the last round of so called peace talks during the Clinton WH. This was one of "the chances" you refer to -- but no real chance as the map shows very well.

The map was kept out of the US press during those years. For good reason -- because it exposes the "great offer" as a lie.

You can call a series of disconnected enclaves a state if you want to -- but No world leader worth his salt could ever accept this disgraceful offer -- which the US press described as "the best offer the Palestinians will ever get." MHG
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:39 PM   #52
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The offer is meaningless anyway because the settler movement will not rest until all green is obliterated from the map.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:13 PM   #53
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Notice the map at far right - which depicts the "great offer" made to Arafat during the last round of so called peace talks during the Clinton WH. This was one of "the chances" you refer to -- but no real chance as the map shows very well.

The map was kept out of the US press during those years. For good reason -- because it exposes the "great offer" as a lie.

You can call a series of disconnected enclaves a state if you want to -- but No world leader worth his salt could ever accept this disgraceful offer -- which the US press described as "the best offer the Palestinians will ever get." MHG
The Palestinians never counter offered and Israel (Clinton says) offered 96 percent of West Bank and other lands including Temple Mount. Not exactly enclaves of land as you say.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:46 PM   #54
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Once the wars were fought between Israel and Arab countries like Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Jordan it was over with for the Palestinians. They did get screwed big time but it's too late to fix now.

They should have lived with the partition. Instead they gave Israel the green light they needed to take more land and put up more security.
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:31 PM   #55
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Once the wars were fought between Israel and Arab countries like Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Jordan it was over with for the Palestinians. They did get screwed big time but it's too late to fix now.

They should have lived with the partition. Instead they gave Israel the green light they needed to take more land and put up more security.
That's easy for you to say.

They have lived with 24 X 7 humiliations, abusive treatment, injustice, theft of their lands, destruction of their culture.

Try it sometime. See how you like it. MHG
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:37 PM   #56
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Ilan Pappe is uniquely qualified to talk about what is happening in Gaza. MHG

الانتفاضة الإلكترونية

OPINION/EDITORIAL

Israel’s incremental genocide in the Gaza ghetto
Ilan Pappe The Electronic Intifada 13 July 2014

http://electronicintifada.net/conten...a-ghetto/13562

In a September 2006 article for The Electronic Intifada, I defined the Israeli policy towards the Gaza Strip as an incremental genocide.

Israel’s present assault on Gaza alas indicates that this policy continues unabated. The term is important since it appropriately locates Israel’s barbaric action — then and now — within a wider historical context.

This context should be insisted upon, since the Israeli propaganda machine attempts again and again to narrate its policies as out of context and turns the pretext it found for every new wave of destruction into the main justification for another spree of indiscriminate slaughter in the killing fields of Palestine.

The context

The Zionist strategy of branding its brutal policies as an ad hoc response to this or that Palestinian action is as old as the Zionist presence in Palestine itself. It was used repeatedly as a justification for implementing the Zionist vision of a future Palestine that has in it very few, if any, native Palestinians.

The means for achieving this goal changed with the years, but the formula has remained the same: whatever the Zionist vision of a Jewish State might be, it can only materialize without any significant number of Palestinians in it. And nowadays the vision is of an Israel stretching over almost the whole of historic Palestine where millions of Palestinians still live.

The present genocidal wave has, like all the previous ones, also a more immediate background. It has been born out of an attempt to foil the Palestinian decision to form a unity government that even the United States could not object to.

The collapse of US Secretary of State John Kerry’s desperate “peace” initiative legitimized the Palestinian appeal to international organizations to stop the occupation. At the same time, Palestinians gained wide international blessing for the cautious attempt represented by the unity government to strategize once again a coordinated policy among the various Palestinian groups and agendas.

Ever since June 1967, Israel searched for a way to keep the territories it occupied that year without incorporating their indigenous Palestinian population into its rights-bearing citizenry. All the while it participated in a “peace process” charade to cover up or buy time for its unilateral colonization policies on the ground.

With the decades, Israel differentiated between areas it wished to control directly and those it would manage indirectly, with the aim in the long run of downsizing the Palestinian population to a minimum with, among other means, ethnic cleansing and economic and geographic strangulation.

The geopolitical location of the West Bank creates the impression in Israel, at least, that it is possible to achieve this without anticipating a third uprising or too much international condemnation.

The Gaza Strip, due to its unique geopolitical location, did not lend itself that easily to such a strategy. Ever since 1994, and even more so when Ariel Sharon came to power as prime minister in the early 2000s, the strategy there was to ghettoize Gaza and somehow hope that the people there — 1.8 million as of today — would be dropped into eternal oblivion.

But the Ghetto proved to be rebellious and unwilling to live under conditions of strangulation, isolation, starvation and economic collapse. So resending it to oblivion necessitates the continuation of genocidal policies.

The pretext

On 15 May, Israeli forces killed two Palestinian youths in the West Bank town of Beitunia, their cold-blooded slayings by a sniper’s bullet captured on video. Their names — Nadim Nuwara and Muhammad Abu al-Thahir — were added to a long list of such killings in recent months and years.

The killing of three Israeli teenagers, two of them minors, abducted in the occupied West Bank in June, was perhaps in reprisal for killings of Palestinian children. But for all the depredations of the oppressive occupation, it provided the pretext first and foremost for destroying the delicate unity in the West Bank but also for the implementation of the old dream of wiping out Hamas from Gaza so that the Ghetto could be quiet again.

Since 1994, even before the rise of Hamas to power in the Gaza Strip, the very particular geopolitical location of the Strip made it clear that any collective punitive action, such as the one inflicted now, could only be an operation of massive killings and destruction. In other words, of a continued genocide.

This recognition never inhibited the generals who give the orders to bomb the people from the air, the sea and the ground. Downsizing the number of Palestinians all over historic Palestine is still the Zionist vision. In Gaza, its implementation takes its most inhuman form.

The particular timing of this wave is determined, as in the past, by additional considerations. The domestic social unrest of 2011 is still simmering and for a while there was a public demand to cut military expenditures and move money from the inflated “defense” budget to social services. The army branded this possibility as suicidal.

There is nothing like a military operation to stifle any voices calling on the government to cut its military expenses.

Typical hallmarks of the previous stages in this incremental genocide reappear in this wave as well. One can witness again consensual Israeli Jewish support for the massacre of civilians in the Gaza Strip, without one significant voice of dissent. In Tel Aviv, the few who dared to demonstrate against it were beaten by Jewish hooligans, while the police stood by and watched.

Academia, as always, becomes part of the machinery. The prestigious private university, the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya has established “a civilian headquarters” where students volunteer to serve as mouthpieces in the propaganda campaign abroad.

The media is loyally recruited, showing no pictures of the human catastrophe Israel has wreaked and informing its public that this time, “the world understands us and is behind us.”

That statement is valid to a point as the political elites in the West continue to provide the old immunity to the “Jewish state.” However, the media have not provided Israel with quite the level of legitimacy it was seeking for its criminal policies.

Obvious exceptions included French media, especially France 24 and the BBC, that continue to shamefully parrot Israeli propaganda.

This is not surprising, since pro-Israel lobby groups continue to work tirelessly to press Israel’s case in France and the rest of Europe as they do in the United States.

for the rest
http://electronicintifada.net/conten...a-ghetto/13562
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:42 PM   #57
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Default a former CIA officer talks about Israel

Philip Giraldi - Is Israel a U.S. Ally?

Video

MUST WATCH!

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle39085.htm
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Old 07-14-2014, 05:59 PM   #58
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Nine soccer fans were killed when a missile struck a cafe Wednesday night where about a dozen locals had gathered to watch the World Cup. Israeli military said the target was a single terrorist.

Gazans Need Ingenuity, Courage to Watch World Cup

"We want Messi not missiles," Gerardo Salom, an Argentina fan said.

In Gaza, many watched games in outdoor coffee shops and seaside hotels during the last World Cup. In contrast, an Israeli missile hit a beachside cafe last week as patrons watched the Argentina-Netherlands semifinal, killing nine people aged from 15 to 28.

Raed Lafi, a local journalist, watched the game on his cell phone with his six children crowding around him because the power in his home was out.

He said he watched the last World Cup on a large screen in an outdoor cafe, but preferred to stay at home this time.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:44 PM   #59
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:07 PM   #60
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That's easy for you to say.

They have lived with 24 X 7 humiliations, abusive treatment, injustice, theft of their lands, destruction of their culture.

Try it sometime. See how you like it. MHG
The Arab countries abandoned the Palestinians. They gave bombs and guns and thats about it.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:08 AM   #61
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Mostly, from the shame of having done diddly to prevent the Holocaust and wishing to try to somehow make amends.
Started before then my friend
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:34 AM   #62
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Gaza is blockaded by Israel. There's nowhere for all those people to go. It's smaller than the area of Denver with three times as many people. Some people don't want to feel guilty about all the innocent lives blown up by Israel. They make excuses like they're gathering up women and children and tying them to the rooftops as human shields. Whatever makes you feel better. In reality, there would be thousands more killed if they were really doing that.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:27 AM   #63
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I feel bad for the women and children, and even the men and boys in Gaza. It sucks Hamas is so scary they pretty much have to go along. I have a Palestinian friend. His dad was out fighting the jews and his mom said I have to get the hell out of here. She eventually made it to the USA with her two boys. I've talked to him about this crap. It's not like people can stand up to Hamas and say we want a peaceful resolution. It's the Hamas way or else. Same with Hezzbollah, Al Queda, ISIS....see a pattern?
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:29 PM   #64
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I feel bad for the women and children, and even the men and boys in Gaza. It sucks Hamas is so scary they pretty much have to go along. I have a Palestinian friend. His dad was out fighting the jews and his mom said I have to get the hell out of here. She eventually made it to the USA with her two boys. I've talked to him about this crap. It's not like people can stand up to Hamas and say we want a peaceful resolution. It's the Hamas way or else. Same with Hezzbollah, Al Queda, ISIS....see a pattern?
You mean to tell me that you CAN'T negotiate with terrorists?
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:00 PM   #65
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I feel bad for the women and children, and even the men and boys in Gaza. It sucks Hamas is so scary they pretty much have to go along. I have a Palestinian friend. His dad was out fighting the jews and his mom said I have to get the hell out of here. She eventually made it to the USA with her two boys. I've talked to him about this crap. It's not like people can stand up to Hamas and say we want a peaceful resolution. It's the Hamas way or else. Same with Hezzbollah, Al Queda, ISIS....see a pattern?
What Hamas did to Fatah when they took over was pretty revolting. Throwing the old regime off of buildings is a pretty good way to get the populace to follow you.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:10 PM   #66
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Notice the map at far right - which depicts the "great offer" made to Arafat during the last round of so called peace talks during the Clinton WH. This was one of "the chances" you refer to -- but no real chance as the map shows very well.

The map was kept out of the US press during those years. For good reason -- because it exposes the "great offer" as a lie.

You can call a series of disconnected enclaves a state if you want to -- but No world leader worth his salt could ever accept this disgraceful offer -- which the US press described as "the best offer the Palestinians will ever get." MHG
It is the best offer they'll ever get. Now they're looking at being wiped out.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:22 PM   #67
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You mean to tell me that you CAN'T negotiate with terrorists?
Yeah, Hamas rejected a ceasefire terms by Egypt and Israel & Arab league approved of the terms.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:26 PM   #68
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Default Oxford prof: Israel is a rogue state with unscrupulous leaders

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It is the best offer they'll ever get. Now they're looking at being wiped out.
Do yourself a favor. Take the time to read this in depth article by one of Israel's best scholars, Avi Shlaim -- now an Oxford professor.

MHG

How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions

http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...rael-palestine
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:56 PM   #69
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Ashkenazi Jewery, the new Nazi's. Kinda reminds me of Satanic Christians.

It's laughable people are saying Palestinians should leave Gaza, where the **** they gonna go when all their paths out of Gaza are blocked. Stupid Scofield bible Christians, don't forget Rev 3:9, these are not Abrahamic Jews, these are Satanists.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:00 PM   #70
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It's not Gaza's fight. The people have to deal with the consequences of decisions Hamas made. The faster a cease-fire is agreed, the better for her fellow residents, said student Aya Ridwa, 25.

"I really hope they reach a cease-fire, we do not want to see more killing and destruction," said Ridwa. "Life has no meaning in Gaza under the siege, we want the siege to be lifted."

Noor Ramadan, 28, a chef and father of three, said he is running out of ways to comfort his children.

"Whenever explosions rock Gaza, my children run toward me," he said. "We are sleepless for many days and we do not know if the next day we will be alive."

"Gaza is a big prison," said Iman Shawwa 25, a student.
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:13 PM   #71
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It's not Gaza's fight. The people have to deal with the consequences of decisions Hamas made. The faster a cease-fire is agreed, the better for her fellow residents, said student Aya Ridwa, 25.

"I really hope they reach a cease-fire, we do not want to see more killing and destruction," said Ridwa. "Life has no meaning in Gaza under the siege, we want the siege to be lifted."

Noor Ramadan, 28, a chef and father of three, said he is running out of ways to comfort his children.

"Whenever explosions rock Gaza, my children run toward me," he said. "We are sleepless for many days and we do not know if the next day we will be alive."

"Gaza is a big prison," said Iman Shawwa 25, a student.
It's remarkable how much Gaza resembles the Warsaw ghetto.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:08 PM   #72
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Enjoy the fireworks show over there boy and girls. Your tax money paid for it.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:31 PM   #73
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This will never end. Every few years Israel will go in and kill leaders of Hamas, diminish all the weapons stockpiles, then pull out.

Then a few years later it will all fall apart again. What more can they do? Do the Israeli haters on the board seriously think they will give up things like Jerusalem? Or let refugees return? Hell no. They won't even stop the settlements unless they get what they want from Obama. But he is being soft on Iran so Israel said we will wait until you are gone, then look for more support.

If they get it they will throw a bone by letting the US President make some inroads with the Palestinians.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:32 PM   #74
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Enjoy the fireworks show over there boy and girls. Your tax money paid for it.
Israel spends among the most in the world on defense. Like 6 % of GDP from what I have heard.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:39 PM   #75
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The offer is meaningless anyway because the settler movement will not rest until all green is obliterated from the map.
So then perhaps the Palestinians should accept whatever they can get before the slice of the pie gets smaller. They're outgunned and out resourced in every respect. Outside of terrorism, they have few cards that can be played. The Iron Dome is rendering most of their missile attacks useless.

They just rejected a cease fire.....so ofcourse Netanyahu will use that as cover to keep attacking. They are just asking for it.
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