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Old 06-12-2014, 02:02 PM   #51
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Without oil money all those people will have are few outdated 1980's era weapons and camels. Problem really solves itself as soon as we (all western nations)remove our economic interests from the region.
Yes because what the world needs is more third world nations. Those countries have people with families who need food, medicine, clothing and education. Saying "let's starve them all back to the middle ages by boycotting them" isn't any kind of solution.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:02 PM   #52
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Mission accomplished?
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:02 PM   #53
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It's ok, I already know your only criterion: "Anyone that doesn't agree with me is subject to scorn and racial slurs. To all others I am open-minded and enlightened."
He would probably have been more interested in debate had you not ran into the party screaming, "Obama's fault!"
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:05 PM   #54
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Have a lot of work to do to ever become energy independent. Redoing the grid system in America through the DoE would be step one. Complete mess.

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Between this and baja's sungazing we should be energy independent in no time.


Blind people don't need to drive anyway.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:06 PM   #55
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Biden Called Iraq One of Obama's 'Great Achievements'


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Old 06-12-2014, 02:06 PM   #56
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It's ok, I already know your only criterion: "Anyone that doesn't agree with me is subject to scorn and racial slurs. To all others I am open-minded and enlightened."
ďAll liberals are hippies flying off emotional handles.Ē

Kaylore

I feel sorry for people with your worldview. It must be a seriously dark, misguided place.

Yes, Iím emotional on the topic. I begged, pleaded, cajoled, cried to, whined to, beseeched anyone who would listen that the invasion was a horrible mistake. We had a tremendous opportunity post-9/11 to build something together, to work towards a safe, prosperous, mindful planet.

We blew it. They won. We lost. The only question now is how dearly will we all pay. Iím afraid to truly mediate on that question.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:07 PM   #57
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He would probably have been more interested in debate had you not ran into the party screaming, "Obama's fault!"
meh, Obama's foreign policy, or should I say, LACK of foreign policy is smeared all over this fiasco. First, his Syrian policy which is what exactly? Syria's violence is spilling over into Iraq.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:10 PM   #58
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meh, Obama's foreign policy, or should I say, LACK of foreign policy is smeared all over this fiasco. First, his Syrian policy which is what exactly? Syria's violence is spilling over into Iraq.
I am on board with Obama's foreign policy being disastrous, but there were attempts to extend and leave a presence in Iraq beyond the SOFA that George W. Bush signed in 2008 that ended in 2011. There wasn't an agreement on that, because Maliki and the Iraqi Parliament were not able to meet conditions regarding immunity and protection of our troops, officials, etc. and various other reasons. Had there been, perhaps things could have turned out differently.

No amount of troops or bombs is doing to defeat this sort of behavior. It is an ideology. How does one kill an idea?
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:11 PM   #59
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Yes because what the world needs is more third world nations. Those countries have people with families who need food, medicine, clothing and education. Saying "let's starve them all back to the middle ages by boycotting them" isn't any kind of solution.
The real reason for a great deal of the western anamosity is due to the fact that they do not want to do business with us. They resent our presense in the region. They survived for thousands of years without westen $$. Give them what they want.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:14 PM   #60
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ďAll liberals are hippies flying off emotional handles.Ē

Kaylore

I feel sorry for people with your worldview. It must be a seriously dark, misguided place.

Yes, Iím emotional on the topic. I begged, pleaded, cajoled, cried to, whined to, beseeched anyone who would listen that the invasion was a horrible mistake. We had a tremendous opportunity post-9/11 to build something together, to work towards a safe, prosperous, mindful planet.

We blew it. They won. We lost. The only question now is how dearly will we all pay. Iím afraid to truly mediate on that question.
I never said that quote, first of all. Second I'll give you props for admitting you are emotional.

And if you bothered to ask me what kind of world I'm hoping for, or what my world view even is, you might learn something other than what the comments section of SmirkingChimp tells you about me and how I see things.

I think people have more in common than not, and I believe if there wasn't so much damn jersey-wearing when it came to politics, things would get done. But the game is about making the other team look bad just so you can look good in comparison. So our entire process has devolved into half the country trying smear the one in power at every turn. Basically we're destroying ourselves to prove a point. It's why I stay out of the WRP forum. I wouldn't even mind liberals act if they'd just own it and admit they are just as judgmental and mean-spirited as conservatives instead of pretending they're more accepting.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:15 PM   #61
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Tom Angell@tomangell 4m
If you supported the Iraq War in 2002 you do not have the judgement required to be president of the United States. @HillaryClinton

Take that, Hillary.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:16 PM   #62
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I am on board with Obama's foreign policy being disastrous, but there were attempts to extend and leave a presence in Iraq beyond the SOFA that George W. Bush signed in 2008 that ended in 2011. There wasn't an agreement on that, because Maliki and the Iraqi Parliament were not able to meet conditions regarding immunity and protection of our troops, officials, etc. and various other reasons. Had there been, perhaps things could have turned out differently.

No amount of troops or bombs is doing to defeat this sort of behavior. It is an ideology. How does one kill an idea?
You kill an idea with a better idea, like solar roadways.

Last edited by Tombstone RJ; 06-12-2014 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:17 PM   #63
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The real reason for a great deal of the western anamosity is due to the fact that they do not want to do business with us. They resent our presense in the region. They survived for thousands of years without westen $$. Give them what they want.
That's not even true. Some of them really do want our business. And mutually beneficial economic arrangements historically have proven to be one of the best ways to bring countries together - especially in instances of there being cultural animosity.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:18 PM   #64
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That's awesome. I was posting it as a joke but he immediately went there. Bush didn't want the troops pulled out. There were set of criteria that were to be kept in-house and when the country met those criteria, the phase out would begin.

This is absolutely Obama's fault.
Newsflash:
This was going to happen whether it was a pullout, draw down, or any other tactic you would prefer. It would have happened yesterday, it is happening today, and if we stayed in Iraq for the next 40 years, it would happen then.

We shouldn't have been there in the first place.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #65
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That's not even true. Some of them really do want our business. And mutually beneficial economic arrangements historically have proven to be one of the best ways to bring countries together - especially in instances of there being cultural animosity.
Sure, some probably do... forgive me for generalizing. But energy exploration and excavating requires massive land-grabs, that's where we clash. But sure, we can still sell them Coca-Cola.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:25 PM   #66
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Biden Called Iraq One of Obama's 'Great Achievements'




too bad Joe didn't leave behind a few shotguns. A few shots in the air might scare Al-Qaeda back into Afghanistan.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:26 PM   #67
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Thanks, Pat
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:36 PM   #68
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The real reason for a great deal of the western anamosity is due to the fact that they do not want to do business with us. They resent our presense in the region. They survived for thousands of years without westen $$. Give them what they want.
Kurdish areas desperately want to be our client state (still, they've wanted it for 20+ years, but Turkey desperately doesn't want that since they have a lot of Kurds themselves)
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:25 PM   #69
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McCain with the solution!



"In a small, mirror-paneled room guarded by a Secret Service agent and packed with some of the city’s wealthiest and most influential political donors, Mr. McCain got right to the point.

"One of the things I would do if I were President would be to sit the Shiites and the Sunnis down and say, 'Stop the bull****,'" said Mr. McCain, according to Shirley Cloyes DioGuardi, an invitee, and two other guests."
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:26 PM   #70
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That's awesome. I was posting it as a joke but he immediately went there. Bush didn't want the troops pulled out. There were set of criteria that were to be kept in-house and when the country met those criteria, the phase out would begin.

This is absolutely Obama's fault.
Bush was maneuvered into making a US withdrawal. Obama carried it out.

Bottom line.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:41 PM   #71
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I never said that quote, first of all. Second I'll give you props for admitting you are emotional.

And if you bothered to ask me what kind of world I'm hoping for, or what my world view even is, you might learn something other than what the comments section of SmirkingChimp tells you about me and how I see things.

I think people have more in common than not, and I believe if there wasn't so much damn jersey-wearing when it came to politics, things would get done. But the game is about making the other team look bad just so you can look good in comparison. So our entire process has devolved into half the country trying smear the one in power at every turn. Basically we're destroying ourselves to prove a point. It's why I stay out of the WRP forum. I wouldn't even mind liberals act if they'd just own it and admit they are just as judgmental and mean-spirited as conservatives instead of pretending they're more accepting.
I get the spirit of what youíre saying here but I personally donít give a flying whit about winning sides here. I get less politically interested with each passing year. Was really into it in my 20s but now Iím more of a humanist who wants the world to move on from violence (greed is violence here) and pollution. Every child born globally should be guaranteed a full plate and glass, real education and security in their own homes.

Our collective failure to do so negates any possible good thing any one ever does.

Iím really not this bleak generally but itís true. The whole post 9/11 chain of events will forever stick in my craw. As for today, again, Iím just not sure what everyone wants. Should we invade Syria? Bomb parts of Iraq? How will we pay for it and continue to provide heath care and education at home? How many soldiers will die or be maimed?

We shouldíve been long invested in pushing for peace. For the smarts and resources weíve had since post WWII, the lack of longview activity is just staggering.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:47 PM   #72
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Just once I'd like to see Buddhist Militants poised to take over something...
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:49 PM   #73
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I get the spirit of what youíre saying here but I personally donít give a flying whit about winning sides here. I get less politically interested with each passing year. Was really into it in my 20s but now Iím more of a humanist who wants the world to move on from violence (greed is violence here) and pollution. Every child born globally should be guaranteed a full plate and glass, real education and security in their own homes.

Our collective failure to do so negates any possible good thing any one ever does.

Iím really not this bleak generally but itís true. The whole post 9/11 chain of events will forever stick in my craw. As for today, again, Iím just not sure what everyone wants. Should we invade Syria? Bomb parts of Iraq? How will we pay for it and continue to provide heath care and education at home? How many soldiers will die or be maimed?

We shouldíve been long invested in pushing for peace. For the smarts and resources weíve had since post WWII, the lack of longview activity is just staggering.

I appreciate the way you think.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:51 PM   #74
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Just once I'd like to see Buddhist Militants poised to take over something...

Be careful what you wish for...

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Old 06-12-2014, 03:52 PM   #75
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I don't even care anymore. That area was more stable when Saddam was in power.

Just pull our troops and let those people worry about their own country.
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