OT: When did an 18% tip become mandatory?

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

That reminds me of one more thing, sport bars. If you are there for 3 hours and spent $20, you should be tipping $5-$10 for taking up a table while you nurse 3 beers. I always consider taking up a servers time that is not a normal 45-60 minutes for a dinner.

This. Completely inconsiderate not to.

[sirhcyennek81]

If its a place I go to regularly, I normally tip more. Servers remember good tippers. Can most times affect the level of service. But even then I tip more than 18%. Usually 20-25.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

The servers I know that work at chart house and a few other top end restaurants pull 60-80k for only a couple hours a night.

By "60-80k" are you suggesting up to $80,000 annually? If they worked 5 days a week, every week of the year, they'd have to average over $300 each night to make that much. Which is practically impossible.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by DHallblows

I all around don't understand your question. Who is disconnected, you or me? Do you mean someone serving you food? Or a waiter vs. waitress? It almost sounded like you thought $3.13 was reasonable hourly wage. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that that is not the case. Please elaborate.

It was mostly in response to your "if you don't tip 15%, they're paying part of your meal" and "Don't be a dick, tip your waitress".

I understand part of the money goes to the busboy and company so I almost never drop to zero but it's not uncommon for me to just be at a table for an hour and run up a $75 bill. On that bill, I'd probably take it to $85 or $90 if I really liked the waitress. This is a place where I'm inclined to slightly overtip though as we may occasionally go multiple times in a week.

But, if I chose not to tip that much, where's the issue? Say I give just a $10 tip, that'd be 13%. I'd say a waitress does around 4-5 tables at a time at this place - possibly more, not sure. Just watching them move around though, I'd say no less. Say half her tip goes to busboy, that gives her $5 from me for an hour. If it's just 3 tables, even, she just made $15 plus whatever the place pays her.

I just fail to see how only getting $5 for stopping by a table a half dozen times over an hour should be scoffed at. Likewise, I almost feel ashamed when I go to a cafe back home when the guys gather and they'll drink coffee for an hour or two and tip 50 cents and think that's ok. By the bill % game, though, they just gave her a 50% tip.

The fact that I buy a steak or just get refills on my water all night should not change the amount of the tip.

[Popps]

Originally Posted by Drunk Monkey

I am calling Bull ****. 15% is the expected amount to tip someone who did an average job. If you are going to get more fancy with a rating system then below average, average, above average you are over thinking it. By definition most waiters are average and deserve average compensation.

Nowadays, 15 percent isn’t an average tip – it’s a way of registering displeasure with the service.
http://bites.today.com/_news/2012/09...e-you-eat?lite

You can call all the BS you want. You can tip substandardly if you want.
But 15% hasn't been the standard in decades. I haven't worked in food service in over a decade, but 15% wasn't the standard, even back then.

People can tip whatever they want, but the standard is what it is. In fact most regular diners and industry workers feel 18% is now too low.

I'm very unhappy with my particular income tax rate. But, my displeasure doesn't change what I'm required to pay. With tipping, you can tip poorly if you want with no penalties. But at least call it what it is.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by TonyR

By "60-80k" are you suggesting up to $80,000 annually? If they worked 5 days a week, every week of the year, they'd have to average over $300 each night to make that much. Which is practically impossible.

Not at a high end restaurant, which is what he specifically referenced. That's only a few tables worth, and often only one.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Popps

Nowadays, 15 percent isn’t an average tip – it’s a way of registering displeasure with the service.
http://bites.today.com/_news/2012/09...e-you-eat?lite

You can call all the BS you want. You can tip substandardly if you want.
But 15% hasn't been the standard in decades. I haven't worked in food service in over a decade, but 15% wasn't the standard, even back then.

People can tip whatever they want, but the standard is what it is. In fact most regular diners and industry workers feel 18% is now too low.

I'm very unhappy with my particular income tax rate. But, my displeasure doesn't change what I'm required to pay. With tipping, you can tip poorly if you want with no penalties. But at least call it what it is.

I sure hope noone expects such a tip from my table.

[Cosmo]

Honestly, I could care less what the industry standard is. I tip higher than 15% when i'm happy and 15% when it was nothing special and rarely go lower unless its stupid horrible service.

Tipping over 20% regularly is just stupid.

[chadta]

Originally Posted by DHallblows

If you aren't tipping your waiter at least 15%, they are paying for part of your meal.

So don't be a dick, tip your waiters.

If you don't want to pay for part of my meal try being visible, or at least stop by to see if maybe I need something.

I have no problem leaving a penny on the bill on the table when I leave, Ive done it 3 or 4 times and I have also never been back to any of those establishments. Maybe just maybe if you aren't getting good tips, its the market telling you that you are doing a ****ty job.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by TonyR

By "60-80k" are you suggesting up to $80,000 annually? If they worked 5 days a week, every week of the year, they'd have to average over $300 each night to make that much. Which is practically impossible.

Pretty easy to do. You do the math when one table of 4 has a bill of 4 to 500 and tip is 20 percent or better. If you go to the higher end restaurants you will notice the same servers have worked there for years since it is very easy to make several hundred dollars in a crq hours. I go to ocean club 2 to 3 times a year and bill is always 180 to 200 for 2 people and I tip 40 bucks. That is one little table or seat at the bar. Auto tip on a group of 10 people will be 200 bucks at least. Believe what you want my friends and I paid way through college working 2 to 3 nights a week.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by maven

Everywhere you go you get "served." But, somehow the restaurant/bar industry is an exception? Yah, it's ****ing stupid.

It is a complete exception because the industry has been established that way. Comparing salaried or hourly employees paid above minimum wage who "serve" to a waiter or waitress is completely irrelevant.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by maven

No. I don't. If I order one beer I don't tip. .

I bet you've been given a lot of free beers in your life, and that the bartender the second time around doesn't look right past you to see if there's anyone they can get a drink before they get to you again.

[Dedhed]

You probably know that when you order a meal in restaurant, the person who brings you the food is generally paid less than minimum wage. Tips are supposed to make up the difference.
Here's the problem: Minimum wage for tipped employees is an appalling $2.13 an hour. And for millions of people who work in the restaurant industry, tips don't come close to providing a living wage.
This is not a small problem. Almost one-third of food workers don't have enough money to buy enough safe and nutritious food to meet their needs. The people who make and serve your food literally may be going hungry.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by Popps

Nowadays, 15 percent isn’t an average tip – it’s a way of registering displeasure with the service.
http://bites.today.com/_news/2012/09...e-you-eat?lite

You can call all the BS you want. You can tip substandardly if you want.
But 15% hasn't been the standard in decades. I haven't worked in food service in over a decade, but 15% wasn't the standard, even back then.

People can tip whatever they want, but the standard is what it is. In fact most regular diners and industry workers feel 18% is now too low.

I'm very unhappy with my particular income tax rate. But, my displeasure doesn't change what I'm required to pay. With tipping, you can tip poorly if you want with no penalties. But at least call it what it is.

Sorry, that article is bull****.

I've lived in New York City nearly a decade. This is the most grueling, unforgiving city for waiters and waitresses, you always tip 15% here - that's satisfactory, period. 18% is ****ing fantastic.

I'll be damned if some suburbanite living in New Jersey (a place I've also lived just as long in) is going to comment on how New Yorkers tip for food.

People here can be especially stingy with tips, there are three kinds of people that tip particularly high in new york.

1 - Out of towners (majority), or in other words - idiots.

2 - People on business dinners/lunches because they aren't paying, the company is.

3 - People that've "made it" here. If you've made it in New York, you could probably buy each and every restaurant you walk into, that's a different story.

Otherwise you got a city full of wealthy jews and upper middle class people who try to save money anyway because the place is the second/third most expensive place to live in the world (and that's not counting immigrants who for obvious reasons won't tip generously).

Areas like New England and Midwest America tend to tip higher because of the small town help the guy out mentality and the fact that the areas are largely racially homogenous.

EDIT: That Article refers to the New York Post which only studied something like 2 restaurants - one of which is in the upper west side. If you ever want to eat the worst food in the world for the most amount of money, you'll find plenty such places in the Upper West Side, where the only thing people care about is what's the trendiest place to take your main squeezes and how well you can show off your dough before taking the chick upstairs.

[errand]

Originally Posted by SleepingTiger

However, the bar/restaurant did close down eventually.

Well when your employees are giving away $100 of booze for $20, yeah I guess so.....

[errand]

Originally Posted by ColoradoDarin

That's what happens when bars sell 100 bucks worth of booze for 20.... It's also theft by the bartender.

I posted the same exact thing before I saw this post....sorry.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Pretty easy to do. You do the math when one table of 4 has a bill of 4 to 500 and tip is 20 percent or better. If you go to the higher end restaurants you will notice the same servers have worked there for years since it is very easy to make several hundred dollars in a crq hours. I go to ocean club 2 to 3 times a year and bill is always 180 to 200 for 2 people and I tip 40 bucks. That is one little table or seat at the bar. Auto tip on a group of 10 people will be 200 bucks at least. Believe what you want my friends and I paid way through college working 2 to 3 nights a week.

Can I ask a question that's going to sound rude but I genuinely mean it in a friendly way?

How do you have money when you can't type a coherent sentence? Are you an oil man? Are you going to drink up my milkshake?

[errand]

Originally Posted by maher_tyler

Here in Tucson I usually get ****ty service so I rarely tip more than $5. I usually always sit and wait for longer than I should for a re-fill on my drink. Take forever to come take my order etc. I hate crappy customer service. If bad enough I won't tip at all. Maybe getting a $0 tip should be a wake up call.

you think it would be, but very few servers look at themselves and the service they give objectively.....anyone who has worked around them can tell you how many times they have heard a server swear up and down that they gave excellent service.....but for some reason every customer is just a jerk who stiffs them.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Can I ask a question that's going to sound rude but I genuinely mean it in a friendly way?

How do you have money when you can't type a coherent sentence? Are you an oil man? Are you going to drink up my milkshake?

Honestly my buddy worked at Magiano's. Some good Broncos stories from him by the way. He regularly would make 2-400 bucks a night there. It did make him a bit racist though...

[errand]

Originally Posted by DHallblows

I tip 20% at least 80% of the time. 15% if service was bad. I suppose 10% if the service was absolutely dog****.

When I was a waiter in 2006 I made $3.13 a hour while minimum wage in CO was well over double that. If you aren't tipping your waiter at least 15%, they are paying for part of your meal.

So don't be a dick, tip your waiters.

That sounds great, but servers etc, people who work for tips, also never claim their actual income on their taxes either......most that I've known claim minimum wage....for instance if they earned your $3.13 per hour they would claim another $4.12 per hour worked on their taxes....despite making perhaps $15 to $20 in tips per hour....

So I have no sympathy for them......if they give good service, their income will improve, if not then they need to find another line of work.

[DHallblows]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

It was mostly in response to your "if you don't tip 15%, they're paying part of your meal" and "Don't be a dick, tip your waitress".

I understand part of the money goes to the busboy and company so I almost never drop to zero but it's not uncommon for me to just be at a table for an hour and run up a $75 bill. On that bill, I'd probably take it to $85 or $90 if I really liked the waitress. This is a place where I'm inclined to slightly overtip though as we may occasionally go multiple times in a week.

But, if I chose not to tip that much, where's the issue? Say I give just a $10 tip, that'd be 13%. I'd say a waitress does around 4-5 tables at a time at this place - possibly more, not sure. Just watching them move around though, I'd say no less. Say half her tip goes to busboy, that gives her $5 from me for an hour. If it's just 3 tables, even, she just made $15 plus whatever the place pays her.

I just fail to see how only getting $5 for stopping by a table a half dozen times over an hour should be scoffed at. Likewise, I almost feel ashamed when I go to a cafe back home when the guys gather and they'll drink coffee for an hour or two and tip 50 cents and think that's ok. By the bill % game, though, they just gave her a 50% tip.

The fact that I buy a steak or just get refills on my water all night should not change the amount of the tip.

Your entire sales are totaled at the end of the night and you are taxed assuming you made 15% tip off that total. If you tip a waiter below the percentage that they are taxed, you are literally taking money away from them (because the federal government taxes them for a 15% tip anyway). If they are taxed at an assumed 15% tip, and you tip them below that, they've paid for part of your meal.

So if you think tipping below the assumed tax rate is acceptable for average service, you're a dick. I only tip below that if the service was embarrassingly bad.


Additionally, tipping for the time you take up (such as coffee) has already been covered earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

That reminds me of one more thing, sport bars. If you are there for 3 hours and spent $20, you should be tipping $5-$10 for taking up a table while you nurse 3 beers. I always consider taking up a servers time that is not a normal 45-60 minutes for a dinner.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by DHallblows

Your entire sales are totaled at the end of the night and you are taxed assuming you made 15% tip off that total. If you tip a waiter below the percentage that they are taxed, you are literally taking money away from them (because the federal government taxes them for a 15% tip anyway). If they are taxed at an assumed 15% tip, and you tip them below that, they've paid for part of your meal.

So if you think tipping below the assumed tax rate is acceptable for average service, you're a dick. I only tip below that if the service was embarrassingly bad.


Additionally, tipping for the time you take up (such as coffee) has already been covered earlier in this thread:

The actual number is 8%. I love how ****ing stupid people are.
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html

Straight from the IRS website.

[DHallblows]

Originally Posted by errand

That sounds great, but servers etc, people who work for tips, also never claim their actual income on their taxes either......most that I've known claim minimum wage....for instance if they earned your $3.13 per hour they would claim another $4.12 per hour worked on their taxes....despite making perhaps $15 to $20 in tips per hour....

So I have no sympathy for them......if they give good service, their income will improve, if not then they need to find another line of work.

You have to at least claim every credit card tip you receive since they are in the restaurant's system

[DHallblows]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

The actual number is 8%. I love how ****ing stupid people are.
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html

Straight from the IRS website.

Yes how dare I quote what I was told in 2006. I said earlier if that was the assumed tax rate still

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by DHallblows

Yes how dare I quote what I was told in 2006. I said earlier if that was the assumed tax rate still

You think the IRS changes the rate every 6 years by as much as double or half?! !

My point is whoever told you that has no idea what they are talking about, and probably say that **** cause they heard it from some other idiot who didn't know what they were talking about.