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Old 01-30-2013, 12:34 PM   #26
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Mediator,

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the time. Too busy to do much but lurk these days, but always love to see your posts.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:49 PM   #27
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Look at the all 22 footage, they show the replay from Flacco's view right after the score. I mistakenly thought it was cover 3 and Moore had the deep middle. However, watch the middle of the field and see that Leonard is deep middle like a Mike and Bruton and Moore have deep outside coverages.

I asked Dad to help since he had time. We both were unimpressed with his hip flip and reading route combinations on deep coverages all year. Rarely did he draw a man under assignment all year. Its just what I saw when I went back and watched.
Again, you're only referencing ONE play. And the coverages ultimately don't even matter in terms of Moore in that one play.

Cover 3 vs 2 would only absolve Tony Carter of responsibility if it's the latter. Either way is a blown play by Moore. We all know and accept that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Look at the all 22 footage, they show the replay from Flacco's view right after the score. I mistakenly thought it was cover 3 and Moore had the deep middle. However, watch the middle of the field and see that Leonard is deep middle like a Mike and Bruton and Moore have deep outside coverages.

I asked Dad to help since he had time. We both were unimpressed with his hip flip and reading route combinations on deep coverages all year. Rarely did he draw a man under assignment all year. Its just what I saw when I went back and watched.
I'm not sure I agree that it was cover 2. Woodyard had the short/RB flip option, with Champ, Carter, Adams, and Harris having a cover 4 middle basically. If you call Leonard, Bruton, and Moore a Cover 2 there is no place for Bruton with Adams/Harris already covering the middle.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:53 PM   #29
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bad bad bad play...

my analysis
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:13 PM   #30
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still want to throw up. unfrickingbelievable. retard.

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Old 01-30-2013, 04:44 PM   #31
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still want to throw up. unfrickingbelievable. retard.

That picture makes me want to
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:44 PM   #32
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We can't replace Moore. He's young and going into the 3rd yr. He learned a hard lesson in that game but he played much better this yr. Let's see how he responds. Adams I would love to see replaced either by Carter coming back which is a reach i guess? or with a better vet FA, or better yet with a young player or draft pick. Hard to start in first yr at safety though so most likely we keep Adams.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:21 PM   #33
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My question is, is Moore ready for the mental challenge of overcoming that horrible mishap?
A lot of fans will be against him, and if he continues to struggle, it will just be a death sentence for him here.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:54 PM   #34
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Is it really news to people that we need to replace Mike Adams? Dude should be a backup, not a starter.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:08 PM   #35
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My question is, is Moore ready for the mental challenge of overcoming that horrible mishap?
A lot of fans will be against him, and if he continues to struggle, it will just be a death sentence for him here.
I think he can. Look at all the **** he dealt with his rookie season. He just went to work and had a major improvement in his play. I think He'll be fine
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:25 AM   #36
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Didn't want to start a new thread for this, but per PFF Champ and Harris were the best corner duo on the league:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...s-cornerbacks/
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:49 AM   #37
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My question is, is Moore ready for the mental challenge of overcoming that horrible mishap?
A lot of fans will be against him, and if he continues to struggle, it will just be a death sentence for him here.
He survived the first 24 hours. Honestly, I wasn't sure he would.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:20 AM   #38
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Didn't want to start a new thread for this, but per PFF Champ and Harris were the best corner duo on the league:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...s-cornerbacks/
Tracy Porter is near the bottom.

Get rid of the OVERATED corner
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:22 AM   #39
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I'm not sure I agree that it was cover 2. Woodyard had the short/RB flip option, with Champ, Carter, Adams, and Harris having a cover 4 middle basically. If you call Leonard, Bruton, and Moore a Cover 2 there is no place for Bruton with Adams/Harris already covering the middle.
It's a tampa 2 hybrid with a 3 man rush, that is why I missed it at first and thought it was cover 3. In cover 3 the CB has the deep third and the single high safety has the deep middle. The CB stays as deep as the WR, he never lets him run by. Watch the all 22 and the CB on the weak side releases the WR to Bruton as well and sits on the flat coverage.

The problem here, is why are you playing a 2 deep hybrid instead of quarters in that situation. The coverage they were playing is not one they would practice alot and one they sure had route miscommunication all over the place. Why not play it KISS and just keep the damn ball in front of you everywhere and make the tackle in bounds. Playing quarters coverage with outside in leverage to take away the sideline is the no brainer there. Instead JDR got freaking Cute and Moore blew it.

BTW, in NO way shape or form am I saying DEN should jettison Moore as a FS. The kid has tools. However, he better start getting smarter in coverage and clean up his technique. Or, he ends up being Taylor Mays and bouncing around the league as backup and STer.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:50 AM   #40
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The problem here, is why are you playing a 2 deep hybrid instead of quarters in that situation. The coverage they were playing is not one they would practice alot and one they sure had route miscommunication all over the place. Why not play it KISS and just keep the damn ball in front of you everywhere and make the tackle in bounds. Playing quarters coverage with outside in leverage to take away the sideline is the no brainer there. Instead JDR got freaking Cute and Moore blew it..
There was still like 40 seconds left (don't remember the exact number). Giving up something deep, even in bounds, puts you in a dangerous situation. So taking away that back shoulder throw (Carter's position on the play) makes a lot of sense to me. I think JDR would have preferred Carter to be a yard or two up field, but with Moore coming in so shallow I have to wonder if Carter pulled off.

The real breakdown is that Moore let the receiver get that far behind him (or behind him at all). I don't have an issue with the scheme, just a high-school mistake by a clown who's given himself his own nickname.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:09 PM   #41
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:07 PM   #42
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We interviewed Cyprien.. A physical SS who can cover..

And Thomas.. A ball hawking FS..

There will probably be competition brought in this offseason.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:18 PM   #43
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http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-game-tying-td I'm sure it's been posted already but here is a good writeup on it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:58 PM   #44
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This was the first thing I thought when I read this. I imagine a guy like Moore who is playing deep center field or helping in run support will do much better in this stat than the guy who is covering TEs one on one all over the field.
Yeah they allude to this in the article : "There’s a tendency for these stats to favor those guys who play as deep safeties"
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:03 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
It's a tampa 2 hybrid with a 3 man rush, that is why I missed it at first and thought it was cover 3. In cover 3 the CB has the deep third and the single high safety has the deep middle. The CB stays as deep as the WR, he never lets him run by. Watch the all 22 and the CB on the weak side releases the WR to Bruton as well and sits on the flat coverage.

The problem here, is why are you playing a 2 deep hybrid instead of quarters in that situation. The coverage they were playing is not one they would practice alot and one they sure had route miscommunication all over the place. Why not play it KISS and just keep the damn ball in front of you everywhere and make the tackle in bounds. Playing quarters coverage with outside in leverage to take away the sideline is the no brainer there. Instead JDR got freaking Cute and Moore blew it.

BTW, in NO way shape or form am I saying DEN should jettison Moore as a FS. The kid has tools. However, he better start getting smarter in coverage and clean up his technique. Or, he ends up being Taylor Mays and bouncing around the league as backup and STer.
Yeah, I had mentioned that yesterday. Certainly a cloud coverage, situation:

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The last bit is extremely possible. I've been bit by the same thing looking like an idiot jogging behind someone because of blown coverage by the safety and no one to play on in my zone.

If that's the case though... shame on JDR for calling a 2-deep defense in that situation.


The rest I'm still not buying, unless we're basing his entire season off of that one play. In that case, yes, terrible technique, ball skills, etc.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:10 PM   #46
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Quote:
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It's a tampa 2 hybrid with a 3 man rush, that is why I missed it at first and thought it was cover 3. In cover 3 the CB has the deep third and the single high safety has the deep middle. The CB stays as deep as the WR, he never lets him run by. Watch the all 22 and the CB on the weak side releases the WR to Bruton as well and sits on the flat coverage.
I fail to see how the 3 man rush has any impact on the coverage other than allowing for an extra man (not that it did any good). Yes, a traditional cover 3 has the CB playing the deep third, but that doesn't mean cover 3 has to be utilized by CBs (in this case it was three safeties).

It doesn't matter. JDR called a questionable coverage scheme and Moore, and Carter, screwed it up.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:59 PM   #47
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I fail to see how the 3 man rush has any impact on the coverage other than allowing for an extra man (not that it did any good). Yes, a traditional cover 3 has the CB playing the deep third, but that doesn't mean cover 3 has to be utilized by CBs (in this case it was three safeties).

It doesn't matter. JDR called a questionable coverage scheme and Moore, and Carter, screwed it up.
The three man rush simply means that there are eight dropped into coverage, when its normally 7. It changes the responsibilities, roles, and communication because of this dynamic. Teams RARELY practice eight man coverages and this team certainly did not come close to executing it. It was an added complication that was IMHO, a huge Mistake. It is highly likely, they had 20 snaps in that coverage all year in games AND practice. The miscommunication between Carter and Moore was a huge factor there.

The Legwold article did not make sense to me at all, as he said Carter was supposed to take any player in the flat, and lo and behold Pitta ran an out into the flat and he certainly looked at him as he let Jones run deep towards Moore.

IMHO, the call was poor for several reasons, but the most certain is it was not one they were familiar and comfortable executing. The 3 man rush is relevant, because the middle of the field coverages switched and the safeties were all eyes in the backfield while backpedaling. Remember, Bruton and Leonard hardly ever play the coverages in games they played on that play. Moore had played that, but very rarely did he play a deep half starting in that position. That unfamiliarity is why I am so upset about it. Give the guys a playcall everyone is comfortable executing and is not so exotic that a small goof does not end your season.

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