Conservative play call on 3rd & 7 cost us the game

[wolf754life]

john fox is dead to me, mccoy too, del rio lost his ****ing mind

[Armchair Bronco]

Let's step back to the 1997 Season. Anyone remember the "All Thunder" play against Pittsburgh, with Denver at its own 15 yard line and needing 6 yards for a first down (sounds familiar, doesn't it)?

Well, Elway made the throw, kept the drive alive, made 2 more first downs, and Denver went on to win the Super Bowl.

http://extras.denverpost.com/broncos/afc1.htm

===

"About as much as what the Broncos thought would happen Sunday when with two minutes left, with the ball at the Broncos' 15, the 61,382 at Three Rivers were screaming and hearts across Pennsylvania and Colorado were palpitating. With the Broncos needing 6 yards on third and the season, Elway screamed in the huddle, "All Thunder", a play in which each receiver is supposed to run a hitch route. Only Sharpe never heard him.

"As they broke the huddle, a confused Sharpe screamed back to Elway about what play he wanted run.

"Elway to Sharpe: 'Just go get open.'

"Sharpe to himself: 'Just go get open? OK.'

"Nothing more than the season and a Super Bowl berth depended on it. So Sharpe ran an 8-yard curl, beat Steelers linebacker Jason Gildon, looked up and watched the ball and the AFC's Super Bowl spot land right in his hands. With two more first downs in the final 1:46, the Broncos ran out the clock and the Steelers' season. All the thunder enlivening Three Rivers Stadium ceased. "

===

Pat Bowlen went on to say:

"That was certainly the biggest first down in the history of the franchise; that's for sure,'' said Bowlen, team owner for 14 years. "If we don't make that first down, we've got serious problems."

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Armchair Bronco

Let's step back to the 1997 Season. Anyone remember the "All Thunder" play against Pittsburgh, with Denver at its own 15 yard line and needing 6 yards for a first down (sounds familiar, doesn't it)?

Well, Elway made the throw, kept the drive alive, made 2 more first downs, and Denver went on to win the Super Bowl.

http://extras.denverpost.com/broncos/afc1.htm

===

"About as much as what the Broncos thought would happen Sunday when with two minutes left, with the ball at the Broncos' 15, the 61,382 at Three Rivers were screaming and hearts across Pennsylvania and Colorado were palpitating. With the Broncos needing 6 yards on third and the season, Elway screamed in the huddle, "All Thunder", a play in which each receiver is supposed to run a hitch route. Only Sharpe never heard him.

"As they broke the huddle, a confused Sharpe screamed back to Elway about what play he wanted run.

"Elway to Sharpe: 'Just go get open.'

"Sharpe to himself: 'Just go get open? OK.'

"Nothing more than the season and a Super Bowl berth depended on it. So Sharpe ran an 8-yard curl, beat Steelers linebacker Jason Gildon, looked up and watched the ball and the AFC's Super Bowl spot land right in his hands. With two more first downs in the final 1:46, the Broncos ran out the clock and the Steelers' season. All the thunder enlivening Three Rivers Stadium ceased. "

===

Pat Bowlen went on to say:

"That was certainly the biggest first down in the history of the franchise; that's for sure,'' said Bowlen, team owner for 14 years. "If we don't make that first down, we've got serious problems."

I've got serious problems with certain aspects of Shanahan's coaching style but we would never have gone out the way we went out today with him at the helm. We just laid down and let them take it from us. **** John Fox with an acid-covered pineapple...

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Here's a happy thought: Did Holliday make this game closer than the score would indicate? Yeah, he probably did.

I think it's quite sad to consider what the score might've been if not for those two returns. I'm also not sure if a blowout would've been more pathetic than seeing those two defenders getting beat deep with 30 seconds left...

[winstoncup bronco]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

I think it's quite sad to consider what the score might've been if not for those two returns. I'm also not sure if a blowout would've been more pathetic than seeing those two defenders getting beat deep with 30 seconds left...

Not that I love them, but blowouts are easier for me to accept. Last year, we got blown out in NE, you knew we were outclassed. The fact that we allowed about 5 once-in-a-lifetime plays last night makes it more difficult. We have all offseason to wonder "if only".

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU

I agree with this. There's a LOT to complain about with the play calling, but this isn't it. You run and let the other team with no time outs try and drive the length of the field in 80 seconds. Not Fox's fault our Top 10 defense screwed the pooch.

Agree. This was conservative, yes, but it was the high percentage play. This gave the Ravens a very, very low chance of winning. They only won because of that ridiculous, lucky Raheem Moore disaster of a play.

[RhymesayersDU]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Agree. This was conservative, yes, but it was the high percentage play. This gave the Ravens a very, very low chance of winning. They only won because of that ridiculous, lucky Raheem Moore disaster of a play.

Adam Shefter tweeted this:

According to ESPN Stats and Information’s win probability model, Denver had a 97.2 percent chance of winning right before Jacoby Jones' TD.

They had no timeouts, they needed 7 just to tie, we had the correct 3-deep defense going... the players just didn't execute.

Like I said, there are lots of things to be upset about. I just don't think running 40 seconds off the clock is one of them, personally. I think 99/100 coaches do that, and furthermore, 99/100 times the defense does it's job.

[lolcopter]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Here's a happy thought: Did Holliday make this game closer than the score would indicate? Yeah, he probably did.

So did dumbass Eric decker who couldn't catch a ball that hit him in the hands again (that went for a pick 6 after deflection)

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Agree. This was conservative, yes, but it was the high percentage play. This gave the Ravens a very, very low chance of winning. They only won because of that ridiculous, lucky Raheem Moore disaster of a play.

You're right that it's the high percentage but if percentages won football games, computers would make the best coaches. Is there a better deep ball squad than the Ravens? Smith didn't beat them but he and Flacco are probably one of the best combinations on the deep ball.

Of course, this criticism is made with hindsight and I'm not sure whether I trust Manning more with the ball after the way he gave it up.

[winstoncup bronco]

Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU

Adam Shefter tweeted this:

Quote:
According to ESPN Stats and Information’s win probability model, Denver had a 97.2 percent chance of winning right before Jacoby Jones' TD.


They had no timeouts, they needed 7 just to tie, we had the correct 3-deep defense going... the players just didn't execute.

Like I said, there are lots of things to be upset about. I just don't think running 40 seconds off the clock is one of them, personally. I think 99/100 coaches do that, and furthermore, 99/100 times the defense does it's job.

Proof positive then that stats, models, percentages, etc. mean nothing. Ravens were torching us deep all game, so not sure why that would change in that situation. Even if we throw and get an incomplete to stop the clock, we still have them needing a TD with not much time left. At least TRY to win the game dammit.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by lolcopter

So did dumbass Eric decker who couldn't catch a ball that hit him in the hands again (that went for a pick 6 after deflection)

He got majorly and clearly interfered with.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

You're right that it's the high percentage but if percentages won football games, computers would make the best coaches. Is there a better deep ball squad than the Ravens? Smith didn't beat them but he and Flacco are probably one of the best combinations on the deep ball.

Of course, this criticism is made with hindsight and I'm not sure whether I trust Manning more with the ball after the way he gave it up.

The offense wasn't playing well enough for me to have confidence in them converting with a pass play in that situation. A failure there gives the Ravens way too much time. You had to like our chances with the Ravens having no TOs and about 1:15 to go close to 80 yards. It only seems bad in hindsight because of that ridiculous play we gave up. I stick with thinking the run there was the right call.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Agree. This was conservative, yes, but it was the high percentage play. This gave the Ravens a very, very low chance of winning. They only won because of that ridiculous, lucky Raheem Moore disaster of a play.

It gave them "a chance". You never give a team a chance in a playoff game. Especially since they already did it once before halftime! You at least try for the 1st down. Regular season you call those runs. That is the difference between regular season coaching and playoff coaching. It's what separates the pack. I don't see Belichick calling that. Or McCarthy. Or coughlin.

Whoever called for that sequence of plays should get the axe IMO. The 3rd down run wasn't even designed to get the 1st down! This game damaged the organization for years. It was bigger than just a loss. The way it was lost I've never seen before

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by TonyR

The offense wasn't playing well enough for me to have confidence in them converting with a pass play in that situation. A failure there gives the Ravens way too much time. You had to like our chances with the Ravens having no TOs and about 1:15 to go close to 80 yards. It only seems bad in hindsight because of that ridiculous play we gave up. I stick with thinking the run there was the right call.

They had a long drive to make it 35 points just before this. A time consuming drive that picked up several 1st downs. It wasn't like they were getting multiple 3 and outs.

[TonyR]

^ I understand that mindset, DB. But if you fail to convert there you've given them a much, much greater chance to win. I suppose there's no right or wrong here, more of a difference of opinion/approach.

[wolf754life]

this was/is and ALWAYS Will be more than just a LOSS. It is a day of Infamy....never to be forgotten, never to be appeased, as much as the superbowls felt so good, this one feels so damn painful.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by TonyR

^ I understand that mindset, DB. But if you fail to convert there you've given them a much, much greater chance to win. I suppose there's no right or wrong here, more of a difference of opinion/approach.

I agree its difference in opinion on how people perceive it. I'd just rather give a team no chance than any chance. Put the destiny of a win in your own offensive hands than another teams. They converted those 3rd downs all year long. A play action would've been great considering ravens were looking run all the way. Conservative wins in the regular season. Not postseason.

[Vine]

Originally Posted by TonyR

^ I understand that mindset, DB. But if you fail to convert there you've given them a much, much greater chance to win. I suppose there's no right or wrong here, more of a difference of opinion/approach.

I don't think it's a much much greater chance to win. Yes, 40 extra seconds for Baltimore would help them somewhat, but when it was all said and done, they didn't need 40 seconds anyway.

Bottom line: Play to win the game, instead of playing not to lose.

[manchambo]

I think it was a reasonable call. It allowed us to run the clock down to the point where it would take a colossal, unheard of blunder to lose the game. And we came up with a colossal, unheard of blunder. The call was perfectly defensible.

Not trying to win the game in regulation, running on 3rd and 5. Those are indefensible.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Vine

I don't think it's a much much greater chance to win. Yes, 40 extra seconds for Baltimore would help them somewhat, but when it was all said and done, they didn't need 40 seconds anyway.

40 extra seconds is HUGE, particularly for a team with no time outs.

[troya900]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Agree. This was conservative, yes, but it was the high percentage play. This gave the Ravens a very, very low chance of winning. They only won because of that ridiculous, lucky Raheem Moore disaster of a play.

It was a Fox chicken**** call plain and simple. Besides Peyton didnt HAVE to throw the ball. He could have seen if someone was open if not slide down and let even more time run off then just a dive up the middle with a 180 lb back. Seriously three straight dives up the middle. They could have gotten creative without resorting to throwing an incomplete pass. But remember this is fckface fox we are talking about..he's an old ball-less POS that doesnt have a creative bone in his body.

[Vine]

Originally Posted by TonyR

40 extra seconds is HUGE, particularly for a team with no time outs.

Well I can see this point, and I am almost in the middle. I don't think I would run it up the gut all three plays though. Use some imagination, and perhaps try a screen pass, or some other safe short pass. Or, maybe on the 3rd down, call a pass, and if no one is open, then instruct Manning to give up a sack.

As I said, I am almost in the middle on that 3rd and 7, but I am clearly pissed off about some of the other decision making/play calling at other times during the game.

[manchambo]

Originally Posted by Vine

Well I can see this point, and I am almost in the middle. I don't think I would run it up the gut all three plays though. Use some imagination, and perhaps try a screen pass, or some other safe short pass. Or, maybe on the 3rd down, call a pass, and if no one is open, then instruct Manning to give up a sack.

As I said, I am almost in the middle on that 3rd and 7, but I am clearly pissed off about some of the other decision making/play calling at other times during the game.

Or maybe just get a bit more creative with the run. Has Fox ever heard of a pitch?

[go_broncos]

Well..Fox was happy we are one of Elite 8.
Who the **** uses those words?
Seems to be satisfied with going to divisional playoffs

[mopatt24]

It was a ****ed up call to make. I blame Fox for the last 30 seconds with 2 timeouts left, to take a knee. That 3rd and 7 run call, had McCoy written all over it. We've been seeing that s**t since he got here with McD. Truth is, we haven't had an effective run game since Shanny left. The power run has not worked and will not work with this line. With Mike McCoy gone, this offense will be much better next year.

Quick note though, Ronnie Hillman played his ass off yesterday