The Orange Mane motivated me…

[Requiem]

How much do you actually know about Sitting Bull?

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Requiem

How much do you actually know about Sitting Bull?

How much do you know about the difference between positive and negative liberties?

[Arkie]

The country was founded on negative liberties governed by the rule of law not men. Over time, men have changed the law to favor themselves and their cronies. We are no longer governed by the rule of law that protected our inalienable rights. We are governed by men who changed the law.

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by Requiem

...you are operating on a rather narrow or limited view of history in order to get results from a specific audience. I didn't expect you to have a very history rich background given the nature of the cards shown on the website.

The game isn't a substitute for public education, but it acts more as a supplement. Instead of a limited view, it's an expanded view. It's only natural that publicly funded schools will omit material that could be unfriendly to bigger government. Even with your history education, you might learn something from this game. It's probably more appealing to homeschoolers, but the students herded through the standardized public system would benefit from this game the most.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Bob

How much do you know about the difference between positive and negative liberties?

Been on a Berlin kick recently, Bob?

The game isn't a substitute for public education, but it acts more as a supplement. Instead of a limited view, it's an expanded view. It's only natural that publicly funded schools will omit material that could be unfriendly to bigger government. Even with your history education, you might learn something from this game. It's probably more appealing to homeschoolers, but the students herded through the standardized public system would benefit from this game the most.

I would never view a board game as supplemental learning material, nor take it seriously. I had the pleasure of sending the link to a few professors and teachers from high school who I got a majority of my civics teaching from and they all laughed at it. Quite frankly, why should anyone take a "history lesson" from a person who has already professed that they took about five or six courses as an undergraduate in it?

Sorry, not interseted in supporting a board game that is trivialized "intelligence" in pursuit of profit.

Sitting Bull honored by this game?

Sitting Bull would piss on this game.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Arkie

It's only natural that publicly funded schools will omit material that could be unfriendly to bigger government.

Yeah, right. The usual inanity from anarchist-wanna-bes without the balls to 'fess up.

PS - An anarchist school is a contradiction.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Arkie

The country was founded on negative liberties governed by the rule of law not men. Over time, men have changed the law to favor themselves and their cronies. We are no longer governed by the rule of law that protected our inalienable rights. We are governed by men who changed the law.

Very good...we have a winner! It really is surprising how few have learned this important distinction.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Been on a Berlin kick recently, Bob?



I would never view a board game as supplemental learning material, nor take it seriously. I had the pleasure of sending the link to a few professors and teachers from high school who I got a majority of my civics teaching from and they all laughed at it. Quite frankly, why should anyone take a "history lesson" from a person who has already professed that they took about five or six courses as an undergraduate in it?

Sorry, not interseted in supporting a board game that is trivialized "intelligence" in pursuit of profit.

Sitting Bull honored by this game?

Sitting Bull would piss on this game.

The fact that you dislike it is an endorsement - thanks! It would be even better if you played it and hated it. Oh, well I am sure that it is difficult to ask your mom for another $50 during this time of year.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Bob

The fact that you dislike it is an endorsement - thanks! It would be even better if you played it and hated it. Oh, well I am sure that it is difficult to ask your mom for another $50 during this time of year.

You are charging 50 bucks for that thing?

The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me.

Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.

As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Requiem

You are charging 50 bucks for that thing?

The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me.

Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.

As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.

This is why I'm opposed to home schooling. Parents are parents, not teachers. Leave the teaching of history to those who know history, not to people who think they do.

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Yeah, right. The usual inanity from anarchist-wanna-bes without the balls to 'fess up.

PS - An anarchist school is a contradiction.

Some people think strong state governments with a limited federal government is the same as anarchy.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Arkie

Some people think strong state governments with a limited federal government is the same as anarchy.

We tried that already. It didn't work. Perhaps you can explain why, so you won't impose the same mistake again.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Requiem

You are charging 50 bucks for that thing?

The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me.

Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.

As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.

But his ideology is pure. That's got to stand for something?

[Bob]

Originally Posted by houghtam

This is why I'm opposed to home schooling. Parents are parents, not teachers. Leave the teaching of history to those who know history, not to people who think they do.

I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well? You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Requiem

You are charging 50 bucks for that thing?

The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me.

Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.

As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.

Now, if you read those documents rather than admiring how pretty the Federalist Papers, and Founding documents look on your mother's shelf, perhaps you will come to respect our nation's heritage and history - and just maybe we will have something to talk about. May I suggest you memorize some of Howard Zinn's works, the self-loathing WWII bomber, turned propagandist - I think you may find much in common with him.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bob

I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well? You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.

And Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Washington, etc etc etc as well.

When it comes to discovering what the opinion of the founding fathers was on the value of public education, it rapidly becomes clear that they considered it essential to the survival of the democratic form of government – or to be more precise, our democratic republic form of government. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both weighed in on the side of full support for educating the masses. Others who lived in the same era who also pushed for public education were Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, and Benjamin Rush.



While Thomas Jefferson tried and failed to convince the Virginia legislature to set up a system of public schools – proposing a generous full scholarship to the College of William and Mary for one child from the district every two years – he was vehement that education was essential to the survival of the American experiment. Yet it remained for Horace Mann to institute the first public schools in the nation in the state of Massachusetts, a mere sixty years later.
http://minnieapolis.newsvine.com/_ne...blic-education

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by Bob

I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well?

The reason home school kids do better on average on standardized tests has nothing to do with where they happen to be schooled, it has to do with having parents that care and are involved in their children's education.

Parental involvement in children's education is the #1 indicator of future success. The problem with public schools isn't the schools, it's the parents that treat it like a daycare.

You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.

Gotta love the guilt by association ad hominem. My favorite.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

And Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Washington, etc etc etc as well.

When it comes to discovering what the opinion of the founding fathers was on the value of public education, it rapidly becomes clear that they considered it essential to the survival of the democratic form of government – or to be more precise, our democratic republic form of government. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both weighed in on the side of full support for educating the masses. Others who lived in the same era who also pushed for public education were Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, and Benjamin Rush.



While Thomas Jefferson tried and failed to convince the Virginia legislature to set up a system of public schools – proposing a generous full scholarship to the College of William and Mary for one child from the district every two years – he was vehement that education was essential to the survival of the American experiment. Yet it remained for Horace Mann to institute the first public schools in the nation in the state of Massachusetts, a mere sixty years later.
http://minnieapolis.newsvine.com/_ne...blic-education

You are correct that that the Founders saw a place for public education, Jefferson was perhaps America’s foremost proponent. However, I assert that the state’s role does not supplant the role of the parent, as it does in some many state-centered governments.

Thought I would share a couple quotes from Noah Webster (now that I know you are such a fan of him) who said: “The ecclesiastical establishments of Europe, which serve to support tyrannical governments, are not the Christian religion, but abuses and corruptions of it. The religion of Christ and his apostles, in it primitive simplicity and purity, unencumbered with the trappings of power and the pomp of ceremonies, is the surest basis of a republican government.”

Or ...“Nothing has a greater tendency to lessen the reverence which mankind ought to have for the Supreme Being, than a careless repetition of his name upon every trifling occasion . . . . To prevent this profanation, such passages are selected from scripture, as contain some important precepts of morality and religion, in which that sacred name is seldom mentioned. Let sacred things be appropriated to sacred purposes.”

You don't honor limited government, based on your past words you advocate for "positive liberty" therefore you do not honor the Founding Fathers or the traditions we have inherited. Your reading of them I suspect, is done for many of the same reasons that other statists have read about the Founders - not to implement freedom or to advance their concepts, but to find ways to subvert freedom. You are a waste of time, and it seems that you only serve to waste others time.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bob

You are correct that that the Founders saw a place for public education, Jefferson was perhaps America’s foremost proponent. However, I assert that the state’s role does not supplant the role of the parent, as it does in some many state-centered governments.

Thought I would share a couple quotes from Noah Webster (now that I know you are such a fan of him) who said: “The ecclesiastical establishments of Europe, which serve to support tyrannical governments, are not the Christian religion, but abuses and corruptions of it. The religion of Christ and his apostles, in it primitive simplicity and purity, unencumbered with the trappings of power and the pomp of ceremonies, is the surest basis of a republican government.”

Or ...“Nothing has a greater tendency to lessen the reverence which mankind ought to have for the Supreme Being, than a careless repetition of his name upon every trifling occasion . . . . To prevent this profanation, such passages are selected from scripture, as contain some important precepts of morality and religion, in which that sacred name is seldom mentioned. Let sacred things be appropriated to sacred purposes.”

You don't honor limited government, based on your past words you advocate for "positive liberty" therefore you do not honor the Founding Fathers or the traditions we have inherited. Your reading of them I suspect, is done for many of the same reasons that other statists have read about the Founders - not to implement freedom or to advance their concepts, but to find ways to subvert freedom. You are a waste of time, and it seems that you only serve to waste others time.

And you're an ideologue so you simply cherry pick the arguments that support your accepted view of history and ignore everything else. That's what ideologues do. Especially those with a strong fundamentalist bent, such as yourself. It's the exact opposite of the Socratic examined life. It's like the blinkered donkey tied to the grinding wheel going around and around and around, no doubt muttering to himself how proud he is to have everything figured out.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Bob

I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well? You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.

I wonder if class size relates at all. I wonder if it's easier to keep the attention of 1 or 2 or even 5 kids than a classroom of 40, 50, or more. Nah, probably not.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by houghtam

I wonder if class size relates at all. I wonder if it's easier to keep the attention of 1 or 2 or even 5 kids than a classroom of 40, 50, or more. Nah, probably not.

You make a good point, but it still does not erase the fact home school kids are scoring higher than state educated children.

[Mr.Meanie]

First off, I'm as entrepreneurial as they come and I applaud any creative venture like this and I wish you all the best in it. I was genuinely curious about the game, however after looking at some of the cards like this:






Come on now... that looks like something taken straight from the Glenn Beck, free republic, or Red state's playbook (i.e. sleazy right wing fear-based propaganda). I would never purposefully let my kids learn "history" from that kind of crap. Sorry.

I'm sure you will sell a lot of those along side the Gold line and Lifelock ads on the radio and by running ads on certain websites though. Best of luck to you in your venture.