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Old 06-04-2018, 09:17 AM   #801
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Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
IIRC, cut got all huffy about Obama's supposed excessive and expensive travel.

Now he excuses all of Trump's.

Typical right-wing hypocrite.


Right-wing exceptionalism on full display.
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:19 AM   #802
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An actual legal expert weighs in...


Why Trump’s Lawyer is Dead Wrong on Obstruction of Justice
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:05 AM   #803
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Default A question for the Barristers...

Dotard Don is claiming some sort of "absolute right" to pardon himself and any others. I have several questions:

1. Once a Pardon has been given and accepted, does the person, as a result thereby admits to guilt of the charges? Can he/she be required to (allocute?) - or otherwise describe the crimes they have committed? Truthfully and completely?

2. If pardon is given and accepted, is the person susceptible to further questions about the crimes, and is he/she obliged to tell the truth under penalty of perjury?

3. If pardon is given and received, can another entity use that information and prosecute in a different jurisdiction? In other words, the pardon applies only to federal crimes and prosecution, not State?

4. If, during the "confessional or "coming to Jesus" moment information about crimes committed by others is revealed, can that information be used in indictments against other persons? In different jurisdictions?

5. To whom would the "confessions" be addressed? Would Dotard Don "confess" to the SCOTUS or the Congress? To MSNBC? CNN? Fox? Who?

6. Can he pardon Russians or Koreans?

7. Can he pardon Money laundering crimes?

From various sources, I have an inkling of ideas about the answers to these questions. But I want our right wing fanatics and other imbeciles around here to understand that the Drumpf dynasty is in deeper legal and political peril than they seem to understand. Depositions and allocutions are not events easily or lightly dismissed. Variations from these issues lead to the destruction of the rule of law which spells the end of American democracy.

American leadership and integrity in international affairs has already been tarnished. The domestic destruction continues apace unless the fascist and nationalist tendencies are removed from the national discourse. In short, paranoia, xenophobia and racism need to be openly addressed and challenged.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:24 AM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Dotard Don is claiming some sort of "absolute right" to pardon himself and any others. I have several questions:

1. Once a Pardon has been given and accepted, does the person, as a result thereby admits to guilt of the charges? Can he/she be required to (allocute?) - or otherwise describe the crimes they have committed? Truthfully and completely?

2. If pardon is given and accepted, is the person susceptible to further questions about the crimes, and is he/she obliged to tell the truth under penalty of perjury?

3. If pardon is given and received, can another entity use that information and prosecute in a different jurisdiction? In other words, the pardon applies only to federal crimes and prosecution, not State?

4. If, during the "confessional or "coming to Jesus" moment information about crimes committed by others is revealed, can that information be used in indictments against other persons? In different jurisdictions?

5. To whom would the "confessions" be addressed? Would Dotard Don "confess" to the SCOTUS or the Congress? To MSNBC? CNN? Fox? Who?

6. Can he pardon Russians or Koreans?

7. Can he pardon Money laundering crimes?

From various sources, I have an inkling of ideas about the answers to these questions. But I want our right wing fanatics and other imbeciles around here to understand that the Drumpf dynasty is in deeper legal and political peril than they seem to understand. Depositions and allocutions are not events easily or lightly dismissed. Variations from these issues lead to the destruction of the rule of law which spells the end of American democracy.

American leadership and integrity in international affairs has already been tarnished. The domestic destruction continues apace unless the fascist and nationalist tendencies are removed from the national discourse. In short, paranoia, xenophobia and racism need to be openly addressed and challenged.
A federal pardon can only be given to someone who is convicted, so only guilty people can be pardoned. Moreover, in Burdick v United States the supreme court ruled that accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt.

Trump may be able to pardon himself, but only once he has been found guilty and sentenced by a court of law. And really, at that point it is pretty academic.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
IIRC, cut got all huffy about Obama's supposed excessive and expensive travel.

Now he excuses all of Trump's.

Typical right-wing hypocrite.
Did I? I'd love to see those posts. I do remember complaining about Michelle Obama's trips with the kids, but the President needs to travel to meet and schmooze with powerful people.

Also I may have said he plays golf too much, but the difference is Trump plays golf with political players, congressman, senators etc, while Obama was off just playing with his buddies. Big difference there.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:52 PM   #806
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Did I? I'd love to see those posts. I do remember complaining about Michelle Obama's trips with the kids, but the President needs to travel to meet and schmooze with powerful people.

Also I may have said he plays golf too much, but the difference is Trump plays golf with political players, congressman, senators etc, while Obama was off just playing with his buddies. Big difference there.
lol wat

Obama golfed with the Republican Speaker of the House and other Republican lawmakers ALL THE TIME.

Trump golfs with his buddies. Pro golfers. Celebrities.

Just admit that you will never ever EVER find fault with Trump and his recreation and we can all move on. Just admit that if he shot your wife in the street, you'd just say "aw, that's just how he is."
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Old 06-04-2018, 01:04 PM   #807
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A federal pardon can only be given to someone who is convicted.
Wrong. Nixon was pardoned but never convicted. Carter pardoned Vietnam dodgers en masse without even naming them by name.

That said, Trump's team is full retard by even toying with the concept of self-pardon.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:07 PM   #808
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lol wat

Obama golfed with the Republican Speaker of the House and other Republican lawmakers ALL THE TIME.

Trump golfs with his buddies. Pro golfers. Celebrities.

Just admit that you will never ever EVER find fault with Trump and his recreation and we can all move on. Just admit that if he shot your wife in the street, you'd just say "aw, that's just how he is."
WRONG!
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/her...ent-barack-oba
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:23 PM   #809
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Wrong. Nixon was pardoned but never convicted. Carter pardoned Vietnam dodgers en masse without even naming them by name.

That said, Trump's team is full retard by even toying with the concept of self-pardon.
I thought Carter used clemancy rules in order to avoid the stigma of guilt. Nixon admitted guilt before he left, and before the Pardon.

So, again, he would have to admit guilt to pardon himself. What would he admit to? And can that admission be used in impeachment proceedings? Based on what Rudy Ghouliani said, sounds like the admit it can.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:27 PM   #810
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I thought Carter used pregnancy rules in order to avoid the stigma of guilt.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say but he literally pardoned hundreds of thousands of people without even knowing who they were, let alone having them tried or convicted of anything...

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/...21-1977-007974

Quote:
Nixon admitted guilt before he left, and before the Pardon.
No he didn't. And even if he did admit it to someone somewhere, that has no legal standing.

Quote:
So, again, he would have to admit guilt to pardon himself. What would he admit to? And can that admission be used in impeachment proceedings? Based on what Rudy Ghouliani said, sounds like the admit it can.
I really have no idea what they're after with this self-pardon discussion. It's one of the dumbest of many, many dumb things this administration has talked about.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:36 PM   #811
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Is it painful being this stupid? I bet you walk into walls and stuff all the time.
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:16 PM   #812
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Carter gave pardons to those who were convicted (about 30,000) and amnesty to all others. Some of the convicted were guilty of committing some violent acts. (Google is sometimes astonishing.)
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:23 PM   #813
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Is it painful being this stupid? I bet you walk into walls and stuff all the time.
Read the article dip****.
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:46 PM   #814
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:31 PM   #815
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Even friggin Senator Grassley when asked about this self-pardon bull**** said, "The president should get a new lawyer."
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:35 PM   #816
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Is it painful being this stupid? I bet you walk into walls and stuff all the time.
I don't think it is painful for any of them.... It is like ignorant bliss where everything is Rush, Fox and Alex Jones 24/7
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:57 PM   #817
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...

I really have no idea what they're after with this self-pardon discussion. It's one of the dumbest of many, many dumb things this administration has talked about.
I can only guess that all the tan-in-a-can is catching up with him.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:31 AM   #818
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Witness tampering and suborning perjury.

Desperate acts for a man the charges against whom are all "fake news."
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Old 06-06-2018, 02:57 PM   #819
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Even Eddie Munster isn't backing Little Orange Fauntleroy's latest diversion tactic...

Contradicting Trump, Ryan Agrees there's no Evidence of Campaign Spy

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) is agreeing with another senior House Republican who says there's no evidence that the FBI planted a “spy” in President Trump's 2016 campaign.

The comments contradict Trump, who has insisted the agency planted a “spy for political reasons and to help Crooked Hillary win.”

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...htmlstory.html
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:33 AM   #820
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Ivanka Trump Was In Contact With A Russian Who Offered A Trump-Putin Meeting


Amid intense scrutiny of contacts between Donald Trump's inner circle and representatives of Vladimir Putin, Ivanka Trump's name has barely come up. But during the campaign, she connected her father’s personal lawyer with a Russian athlete who offered to introduce Donald Trump to Putin to facilitate a 100-story Trump tower in Moscow, according to emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News and four sources with knowledge of the matter.

There is no evidence that Ivanka Trump’s contact with the athlete — the former Olympic weightlifter Dmitry Klokov — was illegal or that it had anything to do with the election. Nor is it clear that Klokov could even have introduced Trump to the Russian president. But congressional investigators have reviewed emails and questioned witnesses about the interaction, according to two of the sources, and so has special counsel Robert Mueller’s team, according to the other two.

The contacts reveal that even as her father was campaigning to become president of the United States, Ivanka Trump connected Michael Cohen with a Russian who offered to arrange a meeting with one of the US’s adversaries — in order to help close a business deal that could have made the Trump family millions.
...
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:01 AM   #821
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Konstantin Kilmnik, Manafort contact and suspected Russian Operative has just been indicted by Mueller's team on 3 counts.

So 24 indictments now? And Manafort's bail has to be revoked soon with additional charges coming there.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:46 PM   #822
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Ivanka Trump Was In Contact With A Russian Who Offered A Trump-Putin Meeting


Amid intense scrutiny of contacts between Donald Trump's inner circle and representatives of Vladimir Putin, Ivanka Trump's name has barely come up. But during the campaign, she connected her father’s personal lawyer with a Russian athlete who offered to introduce Donald Trump to Putin to facilitate a 100-story Trump tower in Moscow, according to emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News and four sources with knowledge of the matter.

There is no evidence that Ivanka Trump’s contact with the athlete — the former Olympic weightlifter Dmitry Klokov — was illegal or that it had anything to do with the election. Nor is it clear that Klokov could even have introduced Trump to the Russian president. But congressional investigators have reviewed emails and questioned witnesses about the interaction, according to two of the sources, and so has special counsel Robert Mueller’s team, according to the other two.

The contacts reveal that even as her father was campaigning to become president of the United States, Ivanka Trump connected Michael Cohen with a Russian who offered to arrange a meeting with one of the US’s adversaries — in order to help close a business deal that could have made the Trump family millions.
...
There is going to be a whole lot of pardoning going on.
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Old 06-08-2018, 04:29 PM   #823
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Senate Investigators May Have Found a Missing Piece in the Russia Probe

An ex-congressman allegedly has ties to the Trump campaign—as well as to powerful figures in Russia and Ukraine. Finding out what he knows is crucial, a top Democrat in the Senate says.



An ex-congressman has attracted scrutiny from the Senate Judiciary Committee, as it continues to investigate whether President Donald Trump’s campaign conspired with Moscow to sway the 2016 presidential election.

Curt Weldon, a Republican and former Pennsylvania congressman, lost his reelection campaign more than a decade ago following an FBI probe into his ties to two Russian companies. He has “connections to both Russia and the Trump campaign” that are raising suspicions among senators, a spokeswoman for Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein said. Feinstein is the committee’s ranking member, and wants to interview Weldon, the spokeswoman said.

The reasons for the committee’s interest in Weldon are murky, but his ties to Russia are significant. Members of Congress believe, for example, that Weldon may lead to answers about why the Trump administration sought to lift sanctions on Russia in the aftermath of the 2016 election despite a public statement by intelligence agencies that the Kremlin tried to help Trump win. Weldon may also have information about the role a Russian oligarch may have played in trying to influence the Trump administration—though Weldon denied this when I asked him about it.

Additionally, Weldon appears to have knowledge of a key instance in which a foreign national sought to influence the president through one of his closest advisers—a central theme of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s ongoing investigation into Russia’s election interference.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-probe/562343/
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:25 PM   #824
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There’s actually lots of evidence of Trump-Russia collusion
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:29 PM   #825
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Even Eddie Munster isn't backing Little Orange Fauntleroy's latest diversion tactic...

Contradicting Trump, Ryan Agrees there's no Evidence of Campaign Spy

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) is agreeing with another senior House Republican who says there's no evidence that the FBI planted a “spy” in President Trump's 2016 campaign.

The comments contradict Trump, who has insisted the agency planted a “spy for political reasons and to help Crooked Hillary win.”

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...htmlstory.html
They didn't need to plant a spy. All they needed was a signature from the FISA Court to surveil someone (anyone would do) who was a part of candidate Trump's team.
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