Cornerback Analysis from Pro Football Focus - The Orange Mane

enjolras · 01-31-2013, 04:06 PM

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

Has Champ as #6 in the league.

Bigdawg26 · 01-31-2013, 04:14 PM

I think CB is one of our strongest positions. Champ, Harris, Carter, and Bolden is a pretty solid group. I would like to see another safety in the first two rounds or FA come in to challenge Rahim "Stay Deep" Moore.

TheReverend · 01-31-2013, 04:55 PM

I posted this in another thread where the "1st down per snap" stat was initially posted:

That would only be accurate if every CB only played isolated man coverage (which is extremely rare as is) every snap.

extralife · 01-31-2013, 05:06 PM

yeah, corners are like DTs--your schemes are based around what you want those guys to do, so there are no metrics that are going to provide complete and accurate portraits of their play. but that doesn't make these stats invalid, they are still useful as a tool so long as they are used properly.

Play2win · 01-31-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdawg26

I think CB is one of our strongest positions. Champ, Harris, Carter, and Bolden is a pretty solid group. I would like to see another safety in the first two rounds or FA come in to challenge Rahim "Stay Deep" Moore.

I think Rahim "The Daydream" Moore might be fitting...

cutthemdown · 01-31-2013, 10:55 PM

Champ played like crap in the playoffs. I really thought he would step up and be a star like Atwater did in 97.

He sort of looked like crap and really old.

enjolras · 02-01-2013, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Champ played like crap in the playoffs. I really thought he would step up and be a star like Atwater did in 97.

He sort of looked like crap and really old.

The playoffs were one game long. He looked bad in one game. Really one half of one game.

lonestar · 02-01-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

The playoffs were one game long. He looked bad in one game. Really one half of one game.

Actually just a couple of plays.

Some folks just like to piss and moan.

Simply we were beat by a better team with A very dynamic head coach. Their front office has been making great decisions of players since they began.

John started two years ago. May take some time to catch up.

It usually happens that the better team wins. We are not there yet.

extralife · 02-01-2013, 02:18 AM

he wasn't even really beaten on the second TD. he slightly overran the route (but he's too slow now! durdurdurdurdur) and then lost his balance.

i4jelway7 · 02-01-2013, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestar

Actually just a couple of plays.

Some folks just like to piss and moan.

Simply we were beat by a better team with A very dynamic head coach. Their front office has been making great decisions of players since they began.

John started two years ago. May take some time to catch up.

It usually happens that the better team wins. We are not there yet.

Fox got out coached ... 31 seconds 2 timeouts, 40 yards needed for a FG try & your QB is PFM & you kneel the ball... WTF .. Fox was playing not to lose instead of playing to win... Fox was out Foxed

Mediator12 · 02-01-2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestar

Actually just a couple of plays.

Some folks just like to piss and moan.

Simply we were beat by a better team with A very dynamic head coach. Their front office has been making great decisions of players since they began.

John started two years ago. May take some time to catch up.

It usually happens that the better team wins. We are not there yet.

OK, BS. Simple BS. BAL was the fifth or 6th most talented team in the AFC playoffs, they just made plays on a team that surrendered very few deep balls or long runs on the year.

BAL is not a more talented team, in fact there talent is waning not improving right now.

Mediator12 · 02-01-2013, 01:12 PM

As far as this stat goes, what the hell is it supposed to measure? For stats to mean anything they must first measure something. I am really supposed to measure a CB's performance in any way, shape, or form by this stat?

The stat lacks every single contextual clue that is necessary. Was it a first down PA pass that cleared the Linebackers and I was playing outside leverage and they ran a route where I should have help?

Did I give up a lot less FD's and TD's because I play predominantly the underneath flats in Cover 2 on passing situations, versus playing half field Coverage with little help in Man coverage or cover 3? Did I get a lot less balls thrown my way because I am way better than the CB's playing next to me. Did I get more thrown my way because teams forced balls to their #1 WR and they designed plays to get him the ball regardless?

All of those reasons WHY are neglected, when trying to measure CB performance with this kind of oversimplified stat. They assume the average fan is going to eat this stuff up, beacuse it does not require a lick of critical thinking, just an easy to consume stat that supposedly measures CB's against each other with any real analysis of performance, just outcome related hindsight.

These guys desperately want to be relevant. Desperately want you to buy their "Premium Advanced Stats." I just have no idea what they really think this measures, but the tendencies and success rates of other teams to attack certain players in a scheme. And,I think its wildly inefficient at its best.

jerseyboiler120 · 02-01-2013, 01:31 PM

Champ looked every bit his age. baltimore was not the better team; we had many opportunities to pull away in that game even with the officiating as horrible as it was. If champ hadn't been beaten so badly on that first long TD we may have easily blown them out - for the 2nd time this year.

Jason7730 · 02-01-2013, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediator12

OK, BS. Simple BS. BAL was the fifth or 6th most talented team in the AFC playoffs, they just made plays on a team that surrendered very few deep balls or long runs on the year.

BAL is not a more talented team, in fact there talent is waning not improving right now.

^ +1

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01-31-2013, 04:06 PM	#1
enjolras Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,941	Cornerback Analysis from Pro Football Focus https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/ Has Champ as #6 in the league.

01-31-2013, 04:14 PM	#2
Bigdawg26 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,477 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I think CB is one of our strongest positions. Champ, Harris, Carter, and Bolden is a pretty solid group. I would like to see another safety in the first two rounds or FA come in to challenge Rahim "Stay Deep" Moore.

01-31-2013, 04:55 PM	#3
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ buy this... twice Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 33,026 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	I posted this in another thread where the "1st down per snap" stat was initially posted: That would only be accurate if every CB only played isolated man coverage (which is extremely rare as is) every snap.

01-31-2013, 05:06 PM	#4
extralife Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,920	yeah, corners are like DTs--your schemes are based around what you want those guys to do, so there are no metrics that are going to provide complete and accurate portraits of their play. but that doesn't make these stats invalid, they are still useful as a tool so long as they are used properly.

01-31-2013, 10:55 PM	#6
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,531	Champ played like crap in the playoffs. I really thought he would step up and be a star like Atwater did in 97. He sort of looked like crap and really old.

02-01-2013, 02:18 AM	#9
extralife Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,920	he wasn't even really beaten on the second TD. he slightly overran the route (but he's too slow now! durdurdurdurdur) and then lost his balance.

02-01-2013, 01:12 PM	#12
Mediator12 OM analyst REAL Front Seven Bandwagon !!! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INDY Posts: 9,701 Adopt-a-Bronco: Malik Jackson	As far as this stat goes, what the hell is it supposed to measure? For stats to mean anything they must first measure something. I am really supposed to measure a CB's performance in any way, shape, or form by this stat? The stat lacks every single contextual clue that is necessary. Was it a first down PA pass that cleared the Linebackers and I was playing outside leverage and they ran a route where I should have help? Did I give up a lot less FD's and TD's because I play predominantly the underneath flats in Cover 2 on passing situations, versus playing half field Coverage with little help in Man coverage or cover 3? Did I get a lot less balls thrown my way because I am way better than the CB's playing next to me. Did I get more thrown my way because teams forced balls to their #1 WR and they designed plays to get him the ball regardless? All of those reasons WHY are neglected, when trying to measure CB performance with this kind of oversimplified stat. They assume the average fan is going to eat this stuff up, beacuse it does not require a lick of critical thinking, just an easy to consume stat that supposedly measures CB's against each other with any real analysis of performance, just outcome related hindsight. These guys desperately want to be relevant. Desperately want you to buy their "Premium Advanced Stats." I just have no idea what they really think this measures, but the tendencies and success rates of other teams to attack certain players in a scheme. And,I think its wildly inefficient at its best.

02-01-2013, 01:31 PM	#13
jerseyboiler120 Seasoned Veteran New to the Forum Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 304 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	Champ looked every bit his age. baltimore was not the better team; we had many opportunities to pull away in that game even with the officiating as horrible as it was. If champ hadn't been beaten so badly on that first long TD we may have easily blown them out - for the 2nd time this year.