Clady.

[colorado jones]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Because I have diarrhea?

Lol... Yes, diarrhea of the brain.

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by lonestar

YET the cap hit each year would be 12 million addition by subtraction just does not work.. 12 mil is 12 mill is 12 mil..

does any one really believe that he is worth 12 million.. I'm sure on here all the kiddies will swoon over it.. but I doubt that John will when the long term realities hit him..

yet he is NOT the same guy we had as a rookie since his knew issue he has never been the same last year 2011 he led the league in holding penalties this year the speed rushers have been all over him and while he did only allow one sack this year, he made Manning visibly nervous forcing him to step up into the pocket or roll out away FROM clady on numerous occasions.. ..

Does that mean he will be 100 % of what he was a rookie? I'll let John and John worry about that..

Again if they find the money OK by me as they are a lot closer to the situation than you or I am..

the facts were when I originally posted numbers were :

• we had 18.5 mil in free space going into the season.. 11 and change of which was roll over money.. those were numbers gathered and published by a national concern.. Whether they are spot on or not I do not know for sure.. but none the less 18.5 million..
  
• we had 35 players under contract at that time according to sporttrac all of which I listed, since then we have signed apx 17 players to future contracts.. totaling as of yesterday (24Jan) 52 players . all listed above in this thread..

now numerous others have went thru the numbers and posted salaries of those they found, I have not checked their accuracy and everyone that has done so has come up with different numbers who is spot on or not I have no idea..


while I appreciate your taking last years numbers and subtracting out who you believe will be gone I still stand on 18.5 million IF Pat allows us to spend it all to fill out some 25 roster spots when the season starts and that includes the number of IR players that have to fit under the cap.. 35 on the list adding 18 for the 53 man roster plus an average of 7 on IR or 60 players.. 25 players for 18.5 mil 740 K per person..

BTW I note you did not list Williams on the cut list, that IMO is a for sure cut..


but thanks again for your thoughts,, even IF I do not see it the way you do....

BTW the real dead money according to Sportrac i listed above at about 1 million for the coming year NOT counting who they may cut in the future

What?

Of course a franchise tackle is worth $12 mill. That's the going rate.

As to the rest of that crap, you obviously can't even do simple math, let alone cap-related math.

The Broncos had $22 million, or $18 million THIS SEASON. That's not even close to a finite number for NEXT SEASON.

That's why it does matter who is let go to free agency and who re-signs.

This is simple logic.

www.spotrac.com has everything, and that's verified information. Read. Stop posting until you comprehend.

[Missouribronc]

And they are required to spend $106.8 million.

The Bowlen is broke conspiracies are dumb.

[jutang]

Given how quick Manning gets rid of the football and the fact how offenses rarely do 7 step drop backs anymore, is Clady worth taking up all that cap space?

Look at the Baltimore game and how Doom got shut out b/c he was blatantly held on every play. This offense would still be deadly with a slightly above average LT.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by jutang

Given how quick Manning gets rid of the football and the fact how offenses rarely do 7 step drop backs anymore, is Clady worth taking up all that cap space?

Look at the Baltimore game and how Doom got shut out b/c he was blatantly held on every play. This offense would still be deadly with a slightly above average LT.

A fact lost on almost everyone else.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

What?

Of course a franchise tackle is worth $12 mill. That's the going rate.

As to the rest of that crap, you obviously can't even do simple math, let alone cap-related math.

The Broncos had $22 million, or $18 million THIS SEASON. That's not even close to a finite number for NEXT SEASON.

That's why it does matter who is let go to free agency and who re-signs.

This is simple logic.

www.spotrac.com has everything, and that's verified information. Read. Stop posting until you comprehend.

The simple fact is I used those number from sportrac several weeks ago for this info.

This was posted in another thread. It shows the information of how I came to those numbers. 

actual numbers from the site quoted..

Players currently under contract for 2013..

$104,209K and Change..

2012 players that will need to be replaced in some manner Unlikely most of these will be cheaper..   Other than Porter who was expensive as a Backup but would have been decent as a starter at $4mil..  

$22,609k and change  

total of the money is $126,818 K and change..

  	        Base Salary 	S. Bonus 	Misc. Bonus 	Cap Hit
Dumervil  2013 	12,000,000 423,000 	4,525,000 	16,948,00
Bailey 2013 	9,000,000 	- 	1,500,000 	10,500,000
Adams 2013 	1,750,000 	- 	250,000 	2,000,000
Ayers $2013 	1,060,000 	- 	1,181,250 	2,241,250  
Beadles 2013 	575,000 	430,000 	- 	1,005,000
Bolden 2013 	480,000 	118,607 	- 	598,607
Brewer      2013 	480,000 	1,333 	- 	481,333
Caldewell 2013 	900,000 	100,000 	- 	1,000,000
Decker 2013 	575,000 	183,037 	- 	758,037
Dressen  2013 	2,500,000 	833,333 	- 	3,333,333
Franklin 2013 	771,000 	420,000 	- 	1,191,000
Green 2013 	555,000 	4,320 	- 	559,320
Gronkowski  2012 	540,000 	- 	- 	540,000
Hanie        2013 	1,250,000 	- 	- 	1,250,000
HArris c   2013 	555,000 	1,000 	- 	556,000
Hester       2013 	715,000 	- 	- 	715,000
Hilman  2013 	480,000 	172,708 	- 	652,708
Holiday      2013 	480,000 	- 	- 	480,000
Irving   2013 	555,000 	173,750 	- 	728,750
Jackson      2013 	480,000 	53,400 	- 	533,400
Johnson     2013 	480,000 	4,000 	- 	484,000
Kuper   2013 4,500,000 	315,166 	1,100,000 	5,915,166
Manning  2013 	20,000,000 	-   	-   	20,000,000
Miller   2013 	2,284,125 	3,443,251 	- 	5,727,376
Moore    2013 	555,000 	432,500 	- 	987,500
Moreno      2013 	1,700,000 	832,000 	943,750 	3,475,750
Osweliere   2013 	480,000 	249,396 	- 	729,396
Pratar   2013 	2,500,000 	812,500 	- 	3,312,500
Tamme    2013 	2,500,000 	500,000 	- 	3,000,000
Thomas D  2013 	836,500 	1,593,750 	- 	2,430,250
Thomas J   2013 	555,000 	96,000 	- 	651,000
Trevathan   2013 	480,000 	26,018 	- 	506,018
Williams  2013 	6,000,000 	250,000 	1,482,500 	7,732,500
Wolfe   2013 	480,000 	566,910 	146,672 	1,193,582
Woodyard   2013 	2,000,000 	- 	- 	2,000,000

*****************

RFA/UFA
Ball           2012 	540,000 	- 	- 	540,000
Bannan     2012 	1,000,000 	- 	- 	1,000,000
Brooking 2012 	1,000,000 	- 	- 	1,000,000
Burton  2012 	615,000 	120,600 	-  735,600
Carter 2012 	615,000 	- 	- 	615,000
Clady   2012 	3,500,000 	- 	2,329,375 	5,829,375
Clark  2012 	540,000 	- 	- 	540,000
Colquitt 2012 	540,000 	- 	- 	540,000
Davis   2012 	615,000 	- 	- 	615,000
Koppen    2012 	825,000 	- 	- 	825,000
Leonard   2012 	825,000 	65,000 	- 	890,000
Porter   2012 	3,000,000 	1,000,000 	- 	4,000,000
Ramierez   2013 	715,000 	- 	- 	715,000
Siliga   2012 	390,000 	- 	- 	390,000
Stokely   2012 	1,000,000 	- 	- 	1,000,000
Urein   2012 	415,000 	- 	- 	415,000
Vickerson   2012 	1,200,000 	500,000 	- 	1,700,000
Willis    2012 	1,260,000 	- 	- 	1,260,000

 While I applaud BMs work and thoughts here I see us with less than 20 million to work with to fill all the UFA or RFA spots that I either did not have valid numbers for for 2013 (RFA) or holes that  UFA create..

that is assuming we do not resign Clady to the mega contract he is looking for..
  If we do then we are looking at about 8 million of which he thinks 7 will be for Rookie contracts..

Now let me add something in here, Pat has had both Josh and John on a short leash in spending up to the cap value..   Therefore unless he opens up the purse strings we are either going to have to redo under performing players  contracts, cut some of these guys or NOT sign any UFA and since we currently have only 35 players under contract something will have to give....

So while I may be of a bit on my numbers at the time I did this they were spot on.

As for Clady he may be worth 12 million a year as a franchise OLT. The question John has to ask is he to rich for our blood. considering we have IIRC 24 more UFA at the end if the 2013 season. Can we afford him and and sign those that need to be kept from that list that is posted above.

Thanks for your normal courteous reply. Just like the old days. Friday nite LITES.

[lonestar]

Btw cutting and pasting from an iPhone is a real biatch and even finding that info in another thread was no fun.

Have a nice night. Pass the bud.

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by lonestar

The simple fact is I used those number from sportrac several weeks ago for this info.


So while I may be of a bit on my numbers at the time I did this they were spot on.

As for Clady he may be worth 12 million a year as a franchise OLT. The question John has to ask is he to rich for our blood. considering we have IIRC 24 more UFA at the end if the 2013 season. Can we afford him and and sign those that need to be kept from that list that is posted above.

Thanks for your normal courteous reply. Just like the old days. Friday nite LITES.

I have a feeling you'll be surprised when the cap numbers come out after the start of the season next year, and when Clady is signed. And honestly, I don't think Elway and company will worry too much about "cap" when they sign Clady. He's that important.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

I have a feeling you'll be surprised when the cap numbers come out after the start of the season next year, and when Clady is signed. And honestly, I don't think Elway and company will worry too much about "cap" when they sign Clady. He's that important.

I may be.. But then so might y'all.

If he was elite and all they would not have tried to lowball him last year.

Since he will be a UFA that means we have to be against all the bottom feeders as well as a few that just need that one guy to get to the next level.

Since John said he wanted build via the draft and knowing he has almost half the team (as we speak) needing to be replaced or resigned, he may just decide a not so elite (that is what Clady is) can be had for a third or less of his going rate.

If he was a complete OLT being able to run block as well as handle speed rushers, if our QB was not able to get rid of the ball fast as he does, then and only then he may feel the need to over pay for a less than elite OLT. IMO.

If he does then I'm ok with it.

Just know that getting a few more "frill UFA" may be out of the question.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by lonestar

If he was elite and all they would not have tried to lowball him last year.

Logic fail. They tried to lowball Champ a few years ago too and he was clearly elite.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Logic fail. They tried to lowball Champ a few years ago too and he was clearly elite.

Ah who tried to lowball champ.

Iirc it was a different regime.

Do you feel that Clady is a elite?

With his deficiency in run blocking.

Struggling with speed rushers.

I Always thought that just not giving up sack was just part of being a complete (read elite) OT. But hey that is just IMO.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Do you feel that Clady is a elite?

I can't name 5 left tackles I'd rather have than him, so yes, to answer your question, I do feel that he's elite. And so does pretty much everyone else in the world not named lonestar.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I can't name 5 left tackles I'd rather have than him, so yes, to answer your question, I do feel that he's elite. And so does pretty much everyone else in the world not named lonestar.

Let's see what John does. Then we will know for sure.

IMO he is not elite he is above average in pass blocking, but I doubt he would have been even that without Manning back there this year.

See that is the real test. How he does without manning.

In 11 he led the league in holding calls, and well the sack level was much higher.

So was it Tebow and Orton that sucked or just your elite OLT?

Those are the questions that John will be looking at as well as how do we afford him when we have 24 other UFA coming do next year.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by lonestar

IMO he is not elite he is above average in pass blocking, but I doubt he would have been even that without Manning back there this year.

See that is the real test. How he does without manning.

Are you really this idiotic?!? Was Clady a rookie this year?

Here's what he did BEFORE Manning:

Clady finished third in voting behind Matt Ryan and Chris Johnson for the 2008 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year Award. He was the only offensive lineman to receive any votes.

Clady started every game during the 2008 NFL season and gave up just a half of a sack while committing only three penalties. He was the only starting NFL offensive lineman to give up less than one sack for the entire season. He was named to the Associated Press NFL All-Pro Second Team behind Michael Roos and Jordan Gross.

As of May 2009, Sporting News lists Clady as the No. 1 offensive tackle in the NFL.

After the Broncos' October 4, 2009 victory over the Dallas Cowboys, Clady set a new NFL record for consecutive games to start a career without giving up a full sack. Through 20 games, he has surrendered only one half of a sack.

Clady was named a starter for the 2010 Pro Bowl and was named First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Associated Press after the 2009 season.

On April 28, 2010, Clady injured his patella tendon while playing basketball but did not miss a game the following season.

On January 17, 2012, Clady was added to the 2012 Pro Bowl roster along with teammate Willis McGahee.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Are you really this idiotic?!? Was Clady a rookie this year?

Here's what he did BEFORE Manning:

Clady finished third in voting behind Matt Ryan and Chris Johnson for the 2008 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year Award. He was the only offensive lineman to receive any votes.

Clady started every game during the 2008 NFL season and gave up just a half of a sack while committing only three penalties. He was the only starting NFL offensive lineman to give up less than one sack for the entire season. He was named to the Associated Press NFL All-Pro Second Team behind Michael Roos and Jordan Gross.

As of May 2009, Sporting News lists Clady as the No. 1 offensive tackle in the NFL.

After the Broncos' October 4, 2009 victory over the Dallas Cowboys, Clady set a new NFL record for consecutive games to start a career without giving up a full sack. Through 20 games, he has surrendered only one half of a sack.

Clady was named a starter for the 2010 Pro Bowl and was named First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Associated Press after the 2009 season.

On April 28, 2010, Clady injured his patella tendon while playing basketball but did not miss a game the following season.

On January 17, 2012, Clady was added to the 2012 Pro Bowl roster along with teammate Willis McGahee.

And yet Clady led the league in holding calls in 2011.

He had a great year in 12 allowing IIRC only one sack.

Even if you are not his cousin. I suspect if you are honest you WILL admit that he is not the same caliber OLT he was as rookie. Or the following year either. The knee is not the same as it was those years.

I also think that if you are honest you know that the pro bowl is a beauty contest and while many are there because they are great some folks get there on past reps.

and yet nine of this matters if we can not afford him. If other teams start the bidding process the specter of having more spots to actually fill this year and do not fool your self into thinking that players that were just signed (cheaply I might add) most of which will either be cut or PS players (which do not count against the cap) .. To the informed that means we have less than 18 mil to fill out this squad. 4-7 will be for rookies coming in and if John holds to his form all of which will make the team.

Add to that 24 players currently on this team are UFA after this coming season of which 5-10 will have to be resigned as they are core players. If they are not then their replacements are going to be almost as expensive.

John is going to have to make some hard decisions.


As great as your bromance is with Clady I'm not sure he will be one kept.

[Heyneck]

Originally Posted by lonestar

And yet Clady led the league in holding calls in 2011.

He had a great year in 12 allowing IIRC only one sack.

Even if you are not his cousin. I suspect if you are honest you WILL admit that he is not the same caliber OLT he was as rookie. Or the following year either. The knee is not the same as it was those years.

I also think that if you are honest you know that the pro bowl is a beauty contest and while many are there because they are great some folks get there on past reps.

and yet nine of this matters if we can not afford him. If other teams start the bidding process the specter of having more spots to actually fill this year and do not fool your self into thinking that players that were just signed (cheaply I might add) most of which will either be cut or PS players (which do not count against the cap) .. To the informed that means we have less than 18 mil to fill out this squad. 4-7 will be for rookies coming in and if John holds to his form all of which will make the team.

Add to that 24 players currently on this team are UFA after this coming season of which 5-10 will have to be resigned as they are core players. If they are not then their replacements are going to be almost as expensive.

John is going to have to make some hard decisions.


As great as your bromance is with Clady I'm not sure he will be one kept.

Dude seriously still doubting Clady talent? Yeah Pro Bowl is a beauty contest, the the All-Pro designation is not. Get a clue. I am not a betting man but I am 100% sure he will be back with us next season. Sig bet?

[Inkana7]

hey guys it's not worth having good players on the team because

[DBroncos4life]

I'm curious to see lonestars opinion on how the Giants who are 9 million dollars OVER the cap with with MORE FAs the us and how the plan on fielding a team next season.

[Bmore Manning]

I'm curious on who we replace him with... CJ Davis come on down!!!!

Maybe we take Albert from the Chiefs and send Clady packing.

If Lonestar said you know what guys, I would use that contract he's going to get, as well as cutting a few others..on pursuing Steven Jackson RB, Jarius Byrd FS, Brent Grimes CB, and Brandon Albert or even King Dunlap LT... Then I think people could respect you. But just saying "He's not worth it, he's not Elite" and not saying who will replace him, or if we have to draft a LT in round one, then who do we spend his money on to improve the team, comes off as Clady hatred.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

I'm curious to see lonestars opinion on how the Giants who are 9 million dollars OVER the cap with with MORE FAs the us and how the plan on fielding a team next season.

Guessing they will have to cut a lot of salary..

since I do not follow them at all except for seeing/hearing about them on the NYC new casts.

Frankly I do not care, they are not my team..

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

I'm curious on who we replace him with... CJ Davis come on down!!!!

Maybe we take Albert from the Chiefs and send Clady packing.

If Lonestar said you know what guys, I would use that contract he's going to get, as well as cutting a few others..on pursuing Steven Jackson RB, Jarius Byrd FS, Brent Grimes CB, and Brandon Albert or even King Dunlap LT... Then I think people could respect you. But just saying "He's not worth it, he's not Elite" and not saying who will replace him, or if we have to draft a LT in round one, then who do we spend his money on to improve the team, comes off as Clady hatred.

I don't see how Albert could be any cheaper than Clady, if he hits the market I bet Chicago is all over him.

Plus I don't think he is as good as Clady is. Didn't they come out the same year? Why not just pay the guy who knows your system and the rest of the OL and move on to the real issue, finding a MLB.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by jutang

Given how quick Manning gets rid of the football and the fact how offenses rarely do 7 step drop backs anymore, is Clady worth taking up all that cap space?

Look at the Baltimore game and how Doom got shut out b/c he was blatantly held on every play. This offense would still be deadly with a slightly above average LT.

You didn't watch the line play in the Balt game. Manning took deep drops and was forced to hold the ball for a long time because his WR's were covered. As it was our OL gave up a couple sacks (including a Strip Sack) late with the game on the line.

To think that anyone could go back there and hold up as long as Clady did is insane, you must be watching the ball and not the players.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

I'm curious on who we replace him with... CJ Davis come on down!!!!

Maybe we take Albert from the Chiefs and send Clady packing.

If Lonestar said you know what guys, I would use that contract he's going to get, as well as cutting a few others..on pursuing Steven Jackson RB, Jarius Byrd FS, Brent Grimes CB, and Brandon Albert or even King Dunlap LT... Then I think people could respect you. But just saying "He's not worth it, he's not Elite" and not saying who will replace him, or if we have to draft a LT in round one, then who do we spend his money on to improve the team, comes off as Clady hatred.

do you realistically think Albert is going to be much cheaper?

IMO if they replace him it will be with another rookie or maybe but I really doubt it swap franklin over..

as for others coming in if he is not resigned why on earth would you want guys like jackson who has more miles on him that a 57 chevy..

I do not care if people respect me I'm not in the ohh please be my friend phase..

I post what I post to make y'all think past the end of your johnson..

as I have said numerous times most folks on here have never EVER done a budget much less live under one..

most folks live month to month and businesses can not do that.. they have to plan LONG term which means looking at what is happening next year when making decisions for this coming season..

Do we sign a bunch more one year contracts so they expire when the following come due for UFA..

    Eric Decker          4 yr/$2,522,150 	2013 	2014
28. Zane Beadles       4 yr/$4,171,000 	2013 	2014
29. JD Walton            4 yr/$2,588,500 	2013 	2014
30. Jacob Hester        2 yr/$1,415,000 	2013 	2014
31. Manuel Ramirez    2 yr/$1,415,000 	2013 	2014
35. Robert Ayers      5 yr/$15,500,000 	2013 	2014
37. Knowshon Moreno   5 yr/$16,700,000 	2013 	2015
38. Wesley Woodyard    2 yr/$3,500,000 	2013 	2014

or do we try and lock them up this coming summer and use that cap space we HAVE to spend this year to get us up to the 89% of the value that CBA requires..

has anyone thought about that as an option?

do not everyone answer at once..

some of Y'all think I hate Clady I DO NOT, I just do not have an orgasm about him, nor do I believe he is elite.. Just because he has had some honors as pro bowl just means that some of the guys that should have been there declined.. and he is better than the next guy on the popular voting list is..

he is a good OLT he also has warts that many want to overlook, average at best run blocking and strugles with speed rushers..

BTW there are other OT that could be looked at other than rookies guys on other teams PS squad the past couple of years.. John has been pretty good about finding gems for our team there.

I'm not the bad guy, just because I want y'all to think about the long term instead of just tomorrow..

But if it makes you feel good hate me I could care less..

also IF JOHN decides Clady is worth the money then it is OK with me..

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

I don't see how Albert could be any cheaper than Clady, if he hits the market I bet Chicago is all over him.

Plus I don't think he is as good as Clady is. Didn't they come out the same year? Why not just pay the guy who knows your system and the rest of the OL and move on to the real issue, finding a MLB.

Albert is not as good as Clady, I was more trying to show an example then be literal. He dances around the question of who to replace him with, and where to allocate those extra funds.

[Bmore Manning]

Lonestar, all my free agent requests/off season plans are realistic. Stop grouping everyone into the same category. You take all examples to be so literal. Funny you knew nothing about how teams had to start hitting the cap limits, and now you apparently proposed that all along.