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Old 12-09-2012, 10:21 PM   #226
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I would put RB and WR ahead of DT. Denver does not have depth at WR. They need a wide out and a slot. RB needs to be addressed as well.
In the case of WR it is not a position we absolutely need to take a first rounder or drop a lot of coin in free agency for. The beauty of a Peyton Manning is he makes decent receivers look great. A good slot guy would be nice though.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:56 AM   #227
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Only if he is the BPA and a fourth or later and given a couple of years to develop. As for stokes. Think he will be hear till Manning retires unless some young buck beats him out.
He is just a sneaky slot that can really get open.
Randall Cobb would beat Stoke out every day and twice on Sunday. 4th or later no way. A late 2nd for a Cobb type would be a slam dunk.

McCarthy says he can't get the ball enough times to Cobb

Last edited by CEH; 12-10-2012 at 02:58 AM..
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:13 AM   #228
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If you want veterans who would be affordable and impact full..

Austin Colie for the slot...Experience with Manning, dynamic when healthy.

Steven Jackson... Great in pass protection, great catching out of the backfield, hard strong runner.

Larry Grant at MLB... Would start if he wasn't behind Willis and Bowman, he's a relatively unknown stud.
I love this post. Add in someone like Glenn Dorsey or a replacement for Ty Warren and the offseason will be complete.

BPA in the draft then.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:12 AM   #229
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I love this post. Add in someone like Glenn Dorsey or a replacement for Ty Warren and the offseason will be complete.

BPA in the draft then.
I'm glad someone who analyzes and breaks down players/film like you, appreciates my suggestions! I thought everyone had me on ignore cause I posted that twice in here and nobody said anything..but the first time I believe I said Dorsey or Branch at DT. Then it would be a truly flexible draft!

Do you think Wolfe plays inside next year, or they keep him in a similar role?
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:06 AM   #230
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I'm glad someone who analyzes and breaks down players/film like you, appreciates my suggestions! I thought everyone had me on ignore cause I posted that twice in here and nobody said anything..but the first time I believe I said Dorsey or Branch at DT. Then it would be a truly flexible draft!

Do you think Wolfe plays inside next year, or they keep him in a similar role?
That's the great thing about the roster at the moment. Not having crucial needs at high profile/demand positions like DE/LT/QB/WR/CB. It gives us so much freedom to do the most in the offseason.

For Wolfe, it really depends on how he develops in the offseason. He needs to go through another offseason of full conditioning to really get in top shape, but he'll probably play both positions depending on down and distance.

Ideally we draft another high end DE through the draft so we have more pass rush from the other DE position while Wolfe is the interior pass rusher.

Who knows, maybe they take a chance on Cliff Avril right?
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:39 AM   #231
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That's the great thing about the roster at the moment. Not having crucial needs at high profile/demand positions like DE/LT/QB/WR/CB. It gives us so much freedom to do the most in the offseason.

For Wolfe, it really depends on how he develops in the offseason. He needs to go through another offseason of full conditioning to really get in top shape, but he'll probably play both positions depending on down and distance.

Ideally we draft another high end DE through the draft so we have more pass rush from the other DE position while Wolfe is the interior pass rusher.

Who knows, maybe they take a chance on Cliff Avril right?
Don't forget about Hunter.. Del Rio was high on him heading into the season. Ayers has played well in his limited opportunities, and Malik Jackson is still around. That's 3 SDE options.. I hope Wolfe can permanately play inside next season. We both really like what big Vick has done this year, and I would like to see Bannan and Unrein upgraded next season, with a rookie (Brandon Williams) and a veteran FA (Knighton, Dorsey, Branch).

Imagine this line

Doom, Vickerson, Knighton, Hunter
And reserves being Ayers, Wolfe, Williams, Jackson
That's serious depth and talent!
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:16 AM   #232
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In the case of WR it is not a position we absolutely need to take a first rounder or drop a lot of coin in free agency for. The beauty of a Peyton Manning is he makes decent receivers look great. A good slot guy would be nice though.
Really, Thomas goes down Willis goes in the game how confident are you!?!?!
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:29 AM   #233
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...Clearly if us fans take our eyes off seeding over the next few weeks to discuss something that isn't redundant as ****, the team will blow it's opportunity.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:11 AM   #234
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Don't forget about Hunter.. Del Rio was high on him heading into the season. Ayers has played well in his limited opportunities, and Malik Jackson is still around. That's 3 SDE options.. I hope Wolfe can permanately play inside next season. We both really like what big Vick has done this year, and I would like to see Bannan and Unrein upgraded next season, with a rookie (Brandon Williams) and a veteran FA (Knighton, Dorsey, Branch).

Imagine this line

Doom, Vickerson, Knighton, Hunter
And reserves being Ayers, Wolfe, Williams, Jackson
That's serious depth and talent!
It really depends on which way JDR wants to go.

We've got a very stout strong side against the pass and run game with DE/Miller/Champ on the left side because those guys can tackle/shed/cover and attack the QB.

But our interior doesn't have very stout DTs or a run stuffing Mike in Brooking, but are okay because our secondary is very good at swarming. Brooking especially sucks in my honest opinion because he gets pushed out of the play so easily and can't make tackles outside the hash marks because he's so slow. Our Mike should be making highlight reel type plays because Von does such a good job of sealing the edge on his side and funnelling the run play inside.

The left side is where we are weakest against the run with an undersized Doom that can't/isn't asked to set the edge a whole lot but is rescued by guys like Harris and Raheem Moore who very efficiently go about making run tackles very close to line with minimal gain. That's why we need a man mountain at the 1 tech DT position who can routinely take on multiple blockers (like Dorsey) and allow Wood to flow to the ball on that side without having to fight through traffic and that would help against runs up the middle as well and leave Wolfe one on one to attack the QB lined up more in a 3 tech role.

Doom especially seems to be wearing down (with at least 4+ games to go), he isn't playing with a whole lot of strength right now (his shoulder injury doesn't help) and is only trying a speed rush instead of mixing it up like he was earlier in the season.

It's probably the only complaint I have of JDR (have for a while) when a guy like Doom is logging the most or 2nd most snaps out of all DL when he's most effective playing on pass rushing downs.

Last edited by fontaine; 12-10-2012 at 07:18 AM..
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:16 AM   #235
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PFF just posted in this weeks review if you take out his stats for the 2 games against san diego dumervilles rating is -8.8 in pass rush efficiency this year. Thats pretty bad and with the eye test imo that seems about right this season he hasnt made many plays lately. The only one we can count on for consistant rush is miller. I think doom is due for a restructuring this offseason
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:39 AM   #236
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PFF just posted in this weeks review if you take out his stats for the 2 games against san diego dumervilles rating is -8.8 in pass rush efficiency this year. Thats pretty bad and with the eye test imo that seems about right this season he hasnt made many plays lately. The only one we can count on for consistant rush is miller. I think doom is due for a restructuring this offseason
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There's no context around these numbers.

For example you could have a rookie DE play 6 snaps a game and post a negative rating, while a veteran DE playing out of position/injured and logging a huge amount of snaps logs a similar negative rating.

So which one is the better player?

Dumervil has played over 700 defensive snaps this season so far.

That's 6th/7th most amongst all 4-3 DEs. And he's logged more big plays (sacks, hurries, FFs) than any other DE with near that many snaps.

Doom is simply wearing down and you can see it in his play because he's bull rushing/using power/leverage moves far less often the past few weeks. He's one of the smallest DEs in the game and he's simply not built to be an every down DE (most DEs aren't anyway).

But that's what happens when you have Hunter on IR, Ayers being on the bench as a non factor the first 6/7 games, and having nobody else at DE.

Same with Wolfe who's been asked to play the most amount of snaps out of any rookie DL.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:49 AM   #237
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^ let's not forget matchup opportunities. We've seen Von matched up against TEs many times this year... can't get that opportunity at all without an Elvis
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:58 AM   #238
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700 snaps and only 8 sacks....
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:00 AM   #239
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That's why having this mini break, and then a first round bye (hopefully) will be a big deal for this defense to heal up and rest to really make a push for in the playoffs.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:03 AM   #240
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I like the broncos as much as anyone in the world but tell me honestly when youre watching these past 5 or so games youre not sitting there thinking where the **** is dumerville? He has the 6 ff going for him ehich is nice to see but he should be a 14 sck guy a season easy. Hes not getting it done this year sadly
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:22 AM   #241
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I like the broncos as much as anyone in the world but tell me honestly when youre watching these past 5 or so games youre not sitting there thinking where the **** is dumerville? He has the 6 ff going for him ehich is nice to see but he should be a 14 sck guy a season easy. Hes not getting it done this year sadly
Okay, let's put it this way.

Say you're JDR. You're gameplanning for the upcoming week. You find a weakness you want to exploit in the opposing team's protection.

Who are you going to scheme to attack it? Elvis or Von?

Now you'll see why Elvis' skillset has been shifted into a more supplementary role and not as the primary rusher.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:25 AM   #242
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Thats stupid. Elvis rushed the LT his entire career they both get one on ones and von more times then not gets the double team . Elvis lost weight in the off season maybe he needs it bck
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:40 AM   #243
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Thats stupid. Elvis rushed the LT his entire career they both get one on ones and von more times then not gets the double team . Elvis lost weight in the off season maybe he needs it bck
...not even close, dude.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:59 AM   #244
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So what are you trying to say youre happy with his production im assuming. Youre happy with his contract with clady coming up then decker & dt the following year
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:05 AM   #245
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...not even close, dude.
I thought you were in BALT?
Did you recently move to JAX?
Weird.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:58 AM   #246
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In the case of WR it is not a position we absolutely need to take a first rounder or drop a lot of coin in free agency for. The beauty of a Peyton Manning is he makes decent receivers look great. A good slot guy would be nice though.
What are the odds of a WR making a big contribution the first two years. Unless you find a sleeper like DT and even he was not all that great his first two years you need to get one in the late teens. That is not going happen.

I'm not sure why you and many others think that the team has to have 3-4 big name WRs. Unless you think that we are going to lose one to FA soon it is nuts to tie up big bucks on a spot that has young guys on the rise at NOW.

We do not have to have a roster full of all pros, nice to have but to expensive to keep as noted during our super bowl runs. Everyone thought they needed more money and the exodus started the minute John retired.

I'm not looking for a couple of glory years and then ten years of rebuilding like we had before. IF Brock is. FQB in the making then when Manning retires it would be nice to have a team to support the kid.

WRs are flakes and even the few that make it big in the rookie years are head cases.

Find some kids and develop them like they did in INDY. You can get moderately priced UFA that are on lousy teams or with crap QBs and let them blossom in Denver.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:03 AM   #247
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Really, Thomas goes down Willis goes in the game how confident are you!?!?!
Where are you going to find the money to keep all these head cases once we get them?

You are looking short term only. IMO

We have other needs to fill besides spending big bucks on a head case spot.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:40 PM   #248
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Really, Thomas goes down Willis goes in the game how confident are you!?!?!
Not as worried as many here are. We simply target TE position more. RB in the passing game become a bigger part of the offense. Virgil Green comes in and dominates on seam plays. Instead of our seemingly base 3wide sets, we go more 2 TE base with a 3rd TE brought in to play the slot or out wide if needed
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:45 PM   #249
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Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There's no context around these numbers.

For example you could have a rookie DE play 6 snaps a game and post a negative rating, while a veteran DE playing out of position/injured and logging a huge amount of snaps logs a similar negative rating.

So which one is the better player?

Dumervil has played over 700 defensive snaps this season so far.

That's 6th/7th most amongst all 4-3 DEs. And he's logged more big plays (sacks, hurries, FFs) than any other DE with near that many snaps.

Doom is simply wearing down and you can see it in his play because he's bull rushing/using power/leverage moves far less often the past few weeks. He's one of the smallest DEs in the game and he's simply not built to be an every down DE (most DEs aren't anyway).

But that's what happens when you have Hunter on IR, Ayers being on the bench as a non factor the first 6/7 games, and having nobody else at DE.

Same with Wolfe who's been asked to play the most amount of snaps out of any rookie DL.
Damn I was really looking forward to seeing Hunter play this season. Seemed like he was getting ready to go beast mode.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #250
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Where are you going to find the money to keep all these head cases once we get them?

You are looking short term only. IMO

We have other needs to fill besides spending big bucks on a head case spot.
Take a really good look at this roster. Peyton, Doom, DJ, Bailey and Kuper are the only guys with big contracts. And Kupe's isn't truly that big. Add in more than likely DJ's contract is more than likely coming off the books. Next season is the last of the guaranteed money Doom has coming, so a restructured deal is likely in the near future. PM has been a team guy willing to rework his.deal if necessary. Now the guys you are worried about DT,Decker, Clady, Von, and maybe Harris and Carter will all have new deals coming up soon.

Decker is good but he isn't 10 million a season good
DT will get paid as will Clady and Von

What you are seemingly not seeing is this isn't the Shanahan regime of unloading Brinks trucks at FREE AGENT doorsteps. Instead of that approach that money goes to keeping the team's own while having players on smaller rookie contracts and filling holes with short term deals on modestly prices free agents.

The money situation is ok and wr can keep our guys.
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